Re: perceptual audio codecs (James Johnston )


Subject: Re: perceptual audio codecs
From:    James Johnston  <audioskeptic@xxxxxxxx>
Date:    Thu, 10 Apr 2014 07:42:25 -0700
List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>

--bcaec50fdff3bd76fe04f6b139bb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That's a toughie. Most of the encoders (which are usually not fully standardized) are very proprietary. None of them to speak of will be Matlab, most will be 'C' or c++, at least in the usual form. On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 12:43 AM, JesterN Alberto Novello < jestern77@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > Sorry i probably wrongly expressed myself. I'm not going to test codecs > with software. I'm going to use perceptual tests. What i'm looking for is > the actual codec code to run it for evaluation and comparison (possibly i= n > MATLAB). Unfortunately i find only old code (10 years old). And i'm looki= ng > for something more recent. > Hope it's clearer. > Alberto > > || | | ||| | || || | ||||| || | || | ||| | ||||| | | ||| | |||| | || > |||| > > ALBERTO NOVELLO / JesterN > site: jestern.com > shop: jestern.bandcamp.com > audio: soundcloud.com/jestern > video: vimeo.com/jestern > > || | | ||| | || || | ||||| || | || | ||| | ||||| | | ||| | |||| | || > |||| > > If for any reason you wish not to receive any more messages from this > email, please send an email with REMOVE as subject. I'm sorry for the > inconvenience. > Se per qualsiasi ragione non desideri ricevere piu' messaggi da questo > indirizzo, mandami un messaggio con REMOVE nel soggetto. Mi scuso per il > disturbo. > Il Gioved=EC 10 Aprile 2014 6:37, James Johnston <audioskeptic@xxxxxxxx= M> > ha scritto: > Testing perceptual codecs with software is a bad idea. Any code that > does so is going to have to attempt a universal perceptual model, or take > one of the models from MPEG or other standards, in which case the results > are going to be biased. > > Perceptual codecs should be tested strictly via listening tests. > > SQAM, etc, are not very useful at all, and there isn't a publically > available model I know of that suffices for handling BMLD. > > jj (who invented a lot of that stff, fwiw) > > > On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 2:57 AM, JesterN Alberto Novello < > jestern77@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > > Dear List, > I'm reviewing the state of the art of Perceptual Audio Codecs. For this > reason I tried collecting some available MATLAB codecs for testing qualit= y > (in perceptual experiments), compression ratio and speed. I realised ther= e > is not so much code available out there and mostly quite old (probably fo= r > commercial copyright reasons). So I thought of asking here if any of you > has some links to suggest about some available code (C, C++ also possible= ) > possibly less than a decade old. > Thanks a lot > Alberto > > || | | ||| | || || | ||||| || | || | ||| | ||||| | | ||| | |||| | || > |||| > > ALBERTO NOVELLO / JesterN > site: jestern.com > shop: jestern.bandcamp.com > audio: soundcloud.com/jestern > video: vimeo.com/jestern > > || | | ||| | || || | ||||| || | || | ||| | ||||| | | ||| | |||| | || > |||| > > If for any reason you wish not to receive any more messages from this > email, please send an email with REMOVE as subject. I'm sorry for the > inconvenience. > Se per qualsiasi ragione non desideri ricevere piu' messaggi da questo > indirizzo, mandami un messaggio con REMOVE nel soggetto. Mi scuso per il > disturbo. > > > > > -- > James D. (jj) Johnston > Independent Audio and Electroacoustics Consultant > > > --=20 James D. (jj) Johnston Independent Audio and Electroacoustics Consultant --bcaec50fdff3bd76fe04f6b139bb Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <div dir=3D"ltr"><div>That&#39;s a toughie. Most of the encoders (which are= usually not fully standardized) are very proprietary.</div><div><br></div>= <div>None of them to speak of will be Matlab, most will be &#39;C&#39; or c= ++, at least in the usual form.</div> </div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu,= Apr 10, 2014 at 12:43 AM, JesterN Alberto Novello <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a= href=3D"mailto:jestern77@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">jestern77@xxxxxxxx</a= >&gt;</span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p= x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style=3D"font-family:HelveticaNeue= ,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><d= iv> <div><span>Sorry i probably wrongly expressed myself. I&#39;m not going to = test codecs with software. I&#39;m going to use perceptual tests. What i&#3= 9;m looking for is the actual codec code to run it for evaluation and compa= rison (possibly in MATLAB). Unfortunately i find only old code (10 years ol= d). And i&#39;m looking for something more recent.=A0</span></div> <div style=3D"font-family:HelveticaNeue,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetic= a,Arial,&quot;Lucida Grande&quot;,sans-serif;font-size:13px;font-style:norm= al;background-color:transparent"><span>Hope it&#39;s clearer.</span></div> </div><div><div style=3D"font-family:HelveticaNeue,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quo= t;,Helvetica,Arial,&quot;Lucida Grande&quot;,sans-serif;font-size:13px;font= -style:normal;background-color:transparent"><span>Alberto</span></div><div> </div><div>=A0</div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,clean,sans-se= rif;font-style:normal;background-color:transparent"><span style=3D"font:16p= x/normal Helvetica;text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:norma= l;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;border-collapse:separate"><font face= =3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#999999"><font>|| | | ||| |=A0 ||=A0 || | ||||| |= | | || | ||| | ||||| | | ||| | |||| |=A0 || ||||</font></font></font></span= ><span><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#999999"><font><font><br> <span style=3D"font-size:10px">=A0</span><br></font></font></font></font></= span><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">ALBERTO NOVELLO / JesterN</span><br>s= ite: <span style=3D"font-weight:bold"><a href=3D"http://jestern.com" target= =3D"_blank">jestern.com</a></span><br> shop: <span style=3D"font-weight:bold"><a href=3D"http://jestern.bandcamp.c= om" target=3D"_blank">jestern.bandcamp.com</a></span><br>audio: <span style= =3D"font-weight:bold"><a href=3D"http://soundcloud.com/jestern" target=3D"_= blank">soundcloud.com/jestern</a></span><br> video: <span style=3D"font-weight:bold"><a href=3D"http://vimeo.com/jestern= " target=3D"_blank">vimeo.com/jestern</a></span><span style=3D"font:16px/no= rmal Helvetica;text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;wo= rd-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;border-collapse:separate"><font face=3D"A= rial"><font color=3D"#999999"><span style=3D"font:16px/normal Helvetica;tex= t-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;whi= te-space:normal;border-collapse:separate"><font face=3D"Arial"><font color= =3D"#999999"><font><font><font><span style=3D"font:16px/normal Helvetica;te= xt-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;wh= ite-space:normal;border-collapse:separate"><font face=3D"Arial"><font color= =3D"#999999"><font><br> <span style=3D"font-size:10px">=A0</span><br>|| | | ||| |=A0 ||=A0 || | |||= || || | || | ||| | ||||| | | ||| | |||| |=A0 || ||||</font></font></font></= span><span style=3D"font:16px/normal Helvetica;text-transform:none;text-ind= ent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;border-co= llapse:separate"></span></font></font></font></font></font></span></font></= font></span><span style=3D"font:16px/normal Helvetica;text-transform:none;t= ext-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;bo= rder-collapse:separate"><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#aaaaaa"><br> <br></font></font></span></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,cl= ean,sans-serif;font-style:normal;background-color:transparent"><span style= =3D"font-size:10px">If for any reason you wish not to receive any more mess= ages from this email, please send an email with REMOVE as subject. I&#39;m = sorry for the inconvenience. <br> </span></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;fon= t-size:13px;font-style:normal;background-color:transparent"><span style=3D"= font-size:x-small">Se per qualsiasi ragione non desideri ricevere piu&#39; = messaggi da questo indirizzo, mandami un messaggio con REMOVE nel soggetto.= Mi scuso per il disturbo.</span><br> </div></div><div style=3D"display:block"> <div style=3D"font-family:Helveti= caNeue,&quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,&quot;Lucida Grande&quot;= ,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"> <div style=3D"font-family:HelveticaNeue,&quot;= Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,&quot;Lucida Grande&quot;,sans-serif;f= ont-size:12pt"> <div> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font face=3D"Arial"> Il Gioved=EC 10 Aprile 2014 6= :37, James Johnston &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:audioskeptic@xxxxxxxx" target=3D= "_blank">audioskeptic@xxxxxxxx</a>&gt; ha scritto:<br> </font> </div> </d= iv><div> <div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Testing perceptual codecs with software is = a bad idea.=A0 Any code that does so is going to have to attempt a universa= l perceptual model, or take one of the models from MPEG or other standards,= in which case the results are going to be biased.</div> <div><br></div><div>Perceptual codecs should be tested strictly via listeni= ng tests.</div><div><br></div><div>SQAM, etc, are not very useful at all, a= nd there isn&#39;t a publically available model I know of that suffices for= handling BMLD.</div> <div><br></div><div>jj (who invented a lot of that stff, fwiw)</div></div><= /div><div><br><br><div><div>On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 2:57 AM, JesterN Alberto= Novello <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jestern77@xxxxxxxx" target= =3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow">jestern77@xxxxxxxx</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br> </div><div><div class=3D"h5"><blockquote style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;= padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-width:1px;b= order-left-style:solid"><div><div style=3D"font-family:HelveticaNeue,&quot;= Helvetica Neue&quot;,Helvetica,Arial,&quot;Lucida Grande&quot;,sans-serif;f= ont-size:10pt"> <div> <span>Dear List,</span></div><div><span>I&#39;m reviewing the state of the = art of Perceptual Audio Codecs. For this reason I tried collecting some ava= ilable MATLAB codecs for testing quality (in perceptual experiments), compr= ession ratio and speed. I realised there is not so much code available out = there and mostly quite old (probably for commercial copyright reasons). So = I thought of asking here if any of you has some links to suggest about some= available code (C, C++ also possible) possibly less than a decade old.</sp= an></div> <div><span>Thanks a lot</span></div><div> <span>Alberto</span></div><div></div><div>=A0</div><div style=3D"font-famil= y:arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;font-style:normal;background-color:trans= parent"><span style=3D"font:16px/normal Helvetica;text-transform:none;text-= indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;border= -collapse:separate"><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#999999"><font>|| |= | ||| |=A0 ||=A0 || | ||||| || | || | ||| | ||||| | | ||| | |||| |=A0 || ||||</font><= /font></font></span><span style=3D"font:16px/normal Helvetica;text-transfor= m:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:n= ormal;border-collapse:separate"><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#999999= "><font><font><br> <span style=3D"font-size:10px">=A0</span><br></font></font></font></font></= span><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">ALBERTO NOVELLO / JesterN</span><br>s= ite: <span style=3D"font-weight:bold"><a href=3D"http://jestern.com/" targe= t=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow">jestern.com</a></span><br> shop: <span style=3D"font-weight:bold"><a href=3D"http://jestern.bandcamp.c= om/" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow">jestern.bandcamp.com</a></span><br>= audio: <span style=3D"font-weight:bold"><a href=3D"http://soundcloud.com/je= stern" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow">soundcloud.com/jestern</a></span>= <br> video: <span style=3D"font-weight:bold"><a href=3D"http://vimeo.com/jestern= " target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nofollow">vimeo.com/jestern</a></span><span styl= e=3D"font:16px/normal Helvetica;text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-= spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;border-collapse:separate= "><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#999999"><span style=3D"font:16px/nor= mal Helvetica;text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;wor= d-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;border-collapse:separate"><font face=3D"Ar= ial"><font color=3D"#999999"><font><font><font><span style=3D"font:16px/nor= mal Helvetica;text-transform:none;text-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;wor= d-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;border-collapse:separate"><font face=3D"Ar= ial"><font color=3D"#999999"><font><br> <span style=3D"font-size:10px">=A0</span><br>|| | | ||| |=A0 ||=A0 || | |||= || || | || | ||| | ||||| | | ||| | |||| |=A0 || ||||</font></font></font></= span><span style=3D"font:16px/normal Helvetica;text-transform:none;text-ind= ent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;border-co= llapse:separate"></span></font></font></font></font></font></span></font></= font></span><span style=3D"font:16px/normal Helvetica;text-transform:none;t= ext-indent:0px;letter-spacing:normal;word-spacing:0px;white-space:normal;bo= rder-collapse:separate"><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#aaaaaa"><br> <br></font></font></span></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,cl= ean,sans-serif;font-style:normal;background-color:transparent"><span style= =3D"font-size:10px">If for any reason you wish not to receive any more mess= ages from this email, please send an email with REMOVE as subject. I&#39;m = sorry for the inconvenience. <br> </span></div><div style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,clean,sans-serif;fon= t-size:13px;font-style:normal;background-color:transparent"><span style=3D"= font-size:x-small">Se per qualsiasi ragione non desideri ricevere piu&#39; = messaggi da questo indirizzo, mandami un messaggio con REMOVE nel soggetto. Mi scuso per il disturbo.</s= pan><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div><br><br clear=3D"a= ll"><div><br>-- <br><div>James D. (jj) Johnston</div><div>Independent Audio= and Electroacoustics Consultant</div> </div></div></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div> </div></div></block= quote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div>James D. (jj) Johnston</d= iv><div>Independent Audio and Electroacoustics Consultant</div> </div> --bcaec50fdff3bd76fe04f6b139bb--


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