Re: perceptual audio codecs (JesterN Alberto Novello )


Subject: Re: perceptual audio codecs
From:    JesterN Alberto Novello  <jestern77@xxxxxxxx>
Date:    Thu, 10 Apr 2014 08:43:41 +0100
List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>

---1613889061-232334521-1397115821=:52230 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry i probably wrongly expressed myself. I'm not going to test codecs wit= h software. I'm going to use perceptual tests. What i'm looking for is the = actual codec code to run it for evaluation and comparison (possibly in MATL= AB). Unfortunately i find only old code (10 years old). And i'm looking for= something more recent.=A0=0AHope it's clearer.=0AAlberto=0A=A0=0A|| | | ||= | |=A0 ||=A0 || | ||||| || | || | ||| | ||||| | | ||| | |||| |=A0 || ||||= =0A=A0=0AALBERTO NOVELLO / JesterN=0Asite: jestern.com=0Ashop: jestern.band= camp.com=0Aaudio: soundcloud.com/jestern=0Avideo: vimeo.com/jestern=0A=A0= =0A|| | | ||| |=A0 ||=A0 || | ||||| || | || | ||| | ||||| | | ||| | |||| |= =A0 || ||||=0A=0A=0AIf for any reason you wish not to receive any more mess= ages from this email, please send an email with REMOVE as subject. I'm sorr= y for the inconvenience. =0A=0ASe per qualsiasi ragione non desideri riceve= re piu' messaggi da questo indirizzo, mandami un messaggio con REMOVE nel s= oggetto. Mi scuso per il disturbo.=0A=0AIl Gioved=EC 10 Aprile 2014 6:37, J= ames Johnston <audioskeptic@xxxxxxxx> ha scritto:=0A =0ATesting perceptual= codecs with software is a bad idea.=A0 Any code that does so is going to h= ave to attempt a universal perceptual model, or take one of the models from= MPEG or other standards, in which case the results are going to be biased.= =0A=0APerceptual codecs should be tested strictly via listening tests.=0A= =0ASQAM, etc, are not very useful at all, and there isn't a publically avai= lable model I know of that suffices for handling BMLD.=0A=0Ajj (who invente= d a lot of that stff, fwiw)=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 2:57 AM, Jest= erN Alberto Novello <jestern77@xxxxxxxx> wrote:=0A=0ADear List,=0A>I'm revi= ewing the state of the art of Perceptual Audio Codecs. For this reason I tr= ied collecting some available MATLAB codecs for testing quality (in percept= ual experiments), compression ratio and speed. I realised there is not so m= uch code available out there and mostly quite old (probably for commercial = copyright reasons). So I thought of asking here if any of you has some link= s to suggest about some available code (C, C++ also possible) possibly less= than a decade old.=0A>Thanks a lot=0A>Alberto=0A>=A0=0A>|| | | ||| |=A0 ||= =A0 || | ||||| || | || | ||| | ||||| | | ||| | |||| |=A0 || ||||=0A>=A0=0A>= ALBERTO NOVELLO / JesterN=0A>site: jestern.com=0A>shop: jestern.bandcamp.co= m=0A>audio: soundcloud.com/jestern=0A>video: vimeo.com/jestern=0A>=A0=0A>||= | | ||| |=A0 ||=A0 || | ||||| || | || | ||| | ||||| | | ||| | |||| |=A0 ||= ||||=0A>=0A>=0A>If for any reason you wish not to receive any more message= s from this email, please send an email with REMOVE as subject. I'm sorry f= or the inconvenience. =0A>=0A>Se per qualsiasi ragione non desideri ricever= e piu' messaggi da questo indirizzo, mandami un messaggio con REMOVE nel so= ggetto. Mi scuso per il disturbo.=0A>=0A=0A=0A-- =0A=0AJames D. (jj) Johnst= on=0AIndependent Audio and Electroacoustics Consultant ---1613889061-232334521-1397115821=:52230 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:He= lveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;fo= nt-size:10pt"><div><span>Sorry i probably wrongly expressed myself. I'm not= going to test codecs with software. I'm going to use perceptual tests. Wha= t i'm looking for is the actual codec code to run it for evaluation and com= parison (possibly in MATLAB). Unfortunately i find only old code (10 years = old). And i'm looking for something more recent.&nbsp;</span></div><div sty= le=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'He= lvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-co= lor: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>Hope it's clearer.</span></div= ><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: Helvetica= Neue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; back= ground-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>Alberto</span></div><div></div><div>&nbsp;</div><div style= =3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; = background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span class=3D"yiv17467= 29208Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0,= 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font= -weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; t= ext-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word= -spacing: 0px; font-size: 16px;"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><font colo= r=3D"#999999"><font size=3D"2">|| | | ||| |&nbsp; ||&nbsp; || | ||||| || | = || | ||| | ||||| | | ||| | |||| |&nbsp; || ||||</font></font></font></span>= <span class=3D"yiv1746729208Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: sep= arate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; fon= t-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height= : normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; w= idows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: 16px;"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D= "2"><font color=3D"#999999"><font size=3D"2"><font size=3D"2"><br><span sty= le=3D"font-size:10px;">&nbsp;</span><br></font></font></font></font></span>= <span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">ALBERTO NOVELLO / JesterN</span><br>site:= <span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">jestern.com</span><br>shop: <span style= =3D"font-weight:bold;">jestern.bandcamp.com</span><br>audio: <span style=3D= "font-weight:bold;">soundcloud.com/jestern</span><br>video: <span style=3D"= font-weight:bold;">vimeo.com/jestern</span><span class=3D"yiv1746729208Appl= e-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font= -family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: = normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-inden= t: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing:= 0px; font-size: 16px;"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><font color=3D"#999999"><span class= =3D"yiv1746729208Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; colo= r: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: = normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; o= rphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; wid= ows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: 16px;"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2= "><font color=3D"#999999"><font size=3D"2"><font size=3D"2"><font size=3D"2= "><span class=3D"yiv1746729208Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: s= eparate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; f= ont-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-heig= ht: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space= : normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: 16px;"><font face=3D"Ari= al" size=3D"2"><font color=3D"#999999"><font size=3D"2"><br><span style=3D"font-size:10px;">&nbsp;</span><br>|| | | ||| |&nbsp; ||&nbsp; || = | ||||| || | || | ||| | ||||| | | ||| | |||| |&nbsp; || ||||</font></font><= /font></span><span class=3D"yiv1746729208Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-= collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style= : normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal= ; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: 16px;"></span= ></font></font></font></font></font></span></font></font></span><span class= =3D"yiv1746729208Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; colo= r: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: = normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; o= rphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; wid= ows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: 16px;"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2= "><font color=3D"#AAAAAA"><br><br></font></font></span></div><div style=3D"color: = rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; background-= color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span style=3D"font-size:10px;">If= for any reason you wish not to receive any more messages from this email, = please send an email with REMOVE as subject. I'm sorry for the inconvenienc= e. <br></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; fon= t-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; background-color: transparen= t; font-style: normal;"><span style=3D"font-size:x-small;">Se per qualsiasi= ragione non desideri ricevere piu' messaggi da questo indirizzo, mandami u= n messaggio con REMOVE nel soggetto. Mi scuso per il disturbo.</span><br></= div><div class=3D"yahoo_quoted" style=3D"display: block;"> <div style=3D"fo= nt-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grand= e', sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue= , 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size= : 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> Il Gioved=EC 1= 0 Aprile 2014 6:37, James Johnston &lt;audioskeptic@xxxxxxxx&gt; ha scritt= o:<br> </font> </div> <div class=3D"y_msg_container"><div id=3D"yiv2561198= 690"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Testing perceptual codecs with software is a bad= idea.&nbsp; Any code that does so is going to have to attempt a universal = perceptual model, or take one of the models from MPEG or other standards, i= n which case the results are going to be biased.</div>=0A<div><br></div><di= v>Perceptual codecs should be tested strictly via listening tests.</div><di= v><br></div><div>SQAM, etc, are not very useful at all, and there isn't a p= ublically available model I know of that suffices for handling BMLD.</div>= =0A<div><br></div><div>jj (who invented a lot of that stff, fwiw)</div></di= v><div class=3D"yiv2561198690gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"yiv25611986= 90gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 2:57 AM, JesterN Alberto Novello <spa= n dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:jestern77@xxxxxxxx"= target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:jestern77@xxxxxxxx">jestern77@xxxxxxxx</a= >&gt;</span> wrote:<br>=0A<blockquote class=3D"yiv2561198690gmail_quote" st= yle=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div= ><div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Ari= al, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"><div>=0A<span>Dear List,= </span></div><div style=3D"font-family:HelveticaNeue,;font-size:13px;font-s= tyle:normal;background-color:transparent;"><span>I'm reviewing the state of= the art of Perceptual Audio Codecs. For this reason I tried collecting som= e available MATLAB codecs for testing quality (in perceptual experiments), = compression ratio and speed. I realised there is not so much code available= out there and mostly quite old (probably for commercial copyright reasons)= . So I thought of asking here if any of you has some links to suggest about= some available code (C, C++ also possible) possibly less than a decade old= .</span></div>=0A<div style=3D"font-family:HelveticaNeue,;font-size:13px;fo= nt-style:normal;background-color:transparent;"><span>Thanks a lot</span></d= iv><div style=3D"font-family:HelveticaNeue,;font-size:13px;font-style:norma= l;background-color:transparent;">=0A<span>Alberto</span></div><div></div><d= iv>&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-ser= if; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span style=3D"font= -style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 16px;= line-height: normal; font-family: Helvetica; text-transform: none; text-in= dent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; = border-collapse: separate;"><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#999999"><f= ont>|| | | ||| |&nbsp;=0A ||&nbsp; || | ||||| || | || | ||| | ||||| | | |||= | |||| |&nbsp; || ||||</font></font></font></span><span style=3D"font-styl= e: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 16px; line= -height: normal; font-family: Helvetica; text-transform: none; text-indent:= 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; borde= r-collapse: separate;"><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#999999"><font><= font><br>=0A<span style=3D"font-size:10px;">&nbsp;</span><br></font></font>= </font></font></span><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">ALBERTO NOVELLO / Je= sterN</span><br>site: <span style=3D"font-weight:bold;"><a rel=3D"nofollow"= target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://jestern.com/">jestern.com</a></span><br>= =0Ashop: <span style=3D"font-weight:bold;"><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_b= lank" href=3D"http://jestern.bandcamp.com/">jestern.bandcamp.com</a></span>= <br>audio: <span style=3D"font-weight:bold;"><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"= _blank" href=3D"http://soundcloud.com/jestern">soundcloud.com/jestern</a></= span><br>=0Avideo: <span style=3D"font-weight:bold;"><a rel=3D"nofollow" ta= rget=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://vimeo.com/jestern">vimeo.com/jestern</a></sp= an><span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: no= rmal; font-size: 16px; line-height: normal; font-family: Helvetica; text-tr= ansform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px;= white-space: normal; border-collapse: separate;"><font face=3D"Arial"><fon= t color=3D"#999999"><span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal= ; font-weight: normal; font-size: 16px; line-height: normal; font-family: H= elvetica; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; w= ord-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; border-collapse: separate;"><font fa= ce=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#999999"><font><font><font><span style=3D"font-= style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 16px; = line-height: normal; font-family: Helvetica; text-transform: none; text-ind= ent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; border-collapse: separate;= "><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#999999"><font><br>=0A<span style=3D"= font-size:10px;">&nbsp;</span><br>|| | | ||| |&nbsp; ||&nbsp; || | ||||| ||= | || | ||| | ||||| | | ||| | |||| |&nbsp; || ||||</font></font></font></sp= an><span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: no= rmal; font-size: 16px; line-height: normal; font-family: Helvetica; text-tr= ansform: none; text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px;= white-space: normal; border-collapse: separate;"></span></font></font></fo= nt></font></font></span></font></font></span><span style=3D"font-style: nor= mal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 16px; line-heigh= t: normal; font-family: Helvetica; text-transform: none; text-indent: 0px; = letter-spacing: normal; word-spacing: 0px; white-space: normal; border-coll= apse: separate;"><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#aaaaaa"><br>=0A<br></= font></font></span></div><div style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, clean= , sans-serif; font-style: normal; background-color: transparent;"><span sty= le=3D"font-size:10px;">If for any reason you wish not to receive any more m= essages from this email, please send an email with REMOVE as subject. I'm s= orry for the inconvenience. <br>=0A</span></div><div style=3D"font-family: = arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; b= ackground-color: transparent;"><span style=3D"font-size:x-small;">Se per qu= alsiasi ragione non desideri ricevere piu' messaggi da questo indirizzo,=0A= mandami un messaggio con REMOVE nel soggetto. Mi scuso per il disturbo.</s= pan><br></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <= br><div>James D. (jj) Johnston</div><div>Independent Audio and Electroacous= tics Consultant</div>=0A=0A</div></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div= > </div></body></html> ---1613889061-232334521-1397115821=:52230--


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