Subject: Re: psychoacoustically driven temporal approximation From: JesterN Alberto Novello <jestern77@xxxxxxxx> Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 12:27:29 +0000 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>---357169082-683253156-1394108849=:62963 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All thanks for the help. I'm checking the sources but your suggestions a= lready popped up an idea that i'm trying. Useful brainstorming ;)=0AThanks = a lot=0AAlberto=0A=A0=0A|| | | ||| |=A0 ||=A0 || | ||||| || | || | ||| | ||= ||| | | ||| | |||| |=A0 || ||||=0A=A0=0AALBERTO NOVELLO / JesterN=0Asite: j= estern.com=0Ashop: jestern.bandcamp.com=0Aaudio: soundcloud.com/jestern=0Av= ideo: vimeo.com/jestern=0A=A0=0A|| | | ||| |=A0 ||=A0 || | ||||| || | || | = ||| | ||||| | | ||| | |||| |=A0 || ||||=0A=0A=0AIf for any reason you wish = not to receive any more messages from this email, please send an email with= REMOVE as subject. I'm sorry for the inconvenience. =0A=0ASe per qualsiasi= ragione non desideri ricevere piu' messaggi da questo indirizzo, mandami u= n messaggio con REMOVE nel soggetto. Mi scuso per il disturbo.=0A=0A=0A=0A= =0AIl Gioved=EC 6 Marzo 2014 6:47, Richard F. Lyon <dicklyon@xxxxxxxx> ha sc= ritto:=0A =0AAlberto, the question is not clear.=A0 When you say "in the ti= me domain" do you mean you are looking for alternatives to the widely used = perceptual audio coders that use filterbanks?=A0 =0A=0AIf "a spectral-weigh= ted temporal approximation method" is what you want, don't try to "connect = frequency components=A0to specific samples in the time domain".=A0 Frequenc= y components are not a relevant concept in the time domain.=A0 =0A=0APossib= ly what you want is something like LPC whitening with residual coding.=A0 S= ee for example:=0ASinghal, Sharad. "High quality audio coding using multipu= lse LPC."ICASSP, 1990.=0A=0ADick=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 3:= 05 AM, JesterN Alberto Novello <jestern77@xxxxxxxx> wrote:=0A=0AHi all,=0A>= i'm trying to find a way to approximate the sample values of an audio wavef= orm in time domain.=0A>I want a method that takes care of approximating per= ceptually-relevant audio bands better than others.=0A>Basically a spectral-= weighted temporal approximation method.=A0=0A>In my head it's not clear how= to connect frequency components=A0to specific samples in the time domain.= =A0=0A>Any DSP wizard out there with a good idea/papers ?=0A>Best regards= =0A>Alberto=A0=0A>=0A>=0A>|| | | ||| |=A0 ||=A0 || | ||||| || | || | ||| | = ||||| | | ||| | |||| |=A0 || ||||=0A>=A0=0A>ALBERTO NOVELLO / JesterN=0A>si= te: jestern.com=0A>shop: jestern.bandcamp.com=0A>audio: soundcloud.com/jest= ern=0A>video: vimeo.com/jestern=0A>=A0=0A>|| | | ||| |=A0 ||=A0 || | ||||| = || | || | ||| | ||||| | | ||| | |||| |=A0 || ||||=0A>=0A>=0A>If for any rea= son you wish not to receive any more messages from this email, please send = an email with REMOVE as subject. I'm sorry for the inconvenience. =0A>=0A>S= e per qualsiasi ragione non desideri ricevere piu' messaggi da questo indir= izzo, mandami un messaggio con REMOVE nel soggetto. Mi scuso per il disturb= o.=0A> ---357169082-683253156-1394108849=:62963 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:He= lveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;fo= nt-size:10pt"><div><span>Hi All thanks for the help. I'm checking the sourc= es but your suggestions already popped up an idea that i'm trying. Useful b= rainstorming ;)</span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 1= 3px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucid= a Grande', sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">= Thanks a lot</div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-= family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande',= sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">Alberto</d= iv><div></div><div> </div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-fami= ly: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; fon= t-style: normal;"><span class=3D"yiv1746729208Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helv= etica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; lette= r-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-= transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; font-si= ze: 16px;"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><font color=3D"#999999"><font si= ze=3D"2">|| | | ||| | || || | ||||| || | || | ||| | ||||| | | |= || | |||| | || ||||</font></font></font></span><span class=3D"yiv1746= 729208Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0= , 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; fon= t-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; wor= d-spacing: 0px; font-size: 16px;"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><font col= or=3D"#999999"><font size=3D"2"><font size=3D"2"><br><span style=3D"font-size:10px;"> </span><br></font></font></font></font></s= pan><span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">ALBERTO NOVELLO / JesterN</span><br>s= ite: <span style=3D"font-weight:bold;">jestern.com</span><br>shop: <span st= yle=3D"font-weight:bold;">jestern.bandcamp.com</span><br>audio: <span style= =3D"font-weight:bold;">soundcloud.com/jestern</span><br>video: <span style= =3D"font-weight:bold;">vimeo.com/jestern</span><span class=3D"yiv1746729208= Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); = font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weig= ht: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-i= ndent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spac= ing: 0px; font-size: 16px;"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><font color=3D"= #999999"><span class=3D"yiv1746729208Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-coll= apse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: no= rmal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; = orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; wi= dows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: 16px;"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"= 2"><font color=3D"#999999"><font size=3D"2"><font size=3D"2"><font size=3D"= 2"><span class=3D"yiv1746729208Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: = separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; = font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-hei= ght: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-spac= e: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: 16px;"><font face=3D"Ar= ial" size=3D"2"><font color=3D"#999999"><font size=3D"2"><br><span style=3D= "font-size:10px;"> </span><br>|| | | ||| | || || | ||||| |= | | || | ||| | ||||| | | ||| | |||| | || ||||</font></font></font></s= pan><span class=3D"yiv1746729208Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse:= separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: no= rmal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orp= hans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widow= s: 2; word-spacing: 0px; font-size: 16px;"></span></font></font></font></fo= nt></font></span></font></font></span><span class=3D"yiv1746729208Apple-sty= le-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-fami= ly: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: norma= l; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-indent: 0p= x; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;= font-size: 16px;"><font face=3D"Arial" size=3D"2"><font color=3D"#AAAAAA">= <br><br></font></font></span></div><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-= family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif; background-color: transparent;= font-style: normal;"><span style=3D"font-size:10px;">If for any reason you= wish not to receive any more messages from this email, please send an email wit= h REMOVE as subject. I'm sorry for the inconvenience. <br></span></div><div= style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 13px; font-family: arial, helveti= ca, clean, sans-serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;">= <span style=3D"font-size:x-small;">Se per qualsiasi ragione non desideri ri= cevere piu' messaggi da questo indirizzo, mandami un messaggio con REMOVE n= el soggetto. Mi scuso per il disturbo.</span><br></div><div class=3D"yahoo_= quoted" style=3D"display: block;"> <br> <br> <div style=3D"font-family: Hel= veticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif= ; font-size: 10pt;"> <div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica N= eue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <di= v dir=3D"ltr"> <font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"> Il Gioved=EC 6 Marzo 2014 6= :47, Richard F. Lyon <dicklyon@xxxxxxxx> ha scritto:<br> </font> </div= > <div class=3D"y_msg_container"><div id=3D"yiv9729100209"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>= <div>Alberto, the question is not clear. When you say "in the time do= main" do you mean you are looking for alternatives to the widely used perce= ptual audio coders that use filterbanks? <br><br>=0AIf "<span>a spect= ral-weighted temporal approximation method" is what you want, don't try to = "</span><span>connect frequency components </span><span style=3D"backg= round-color:transparent;">to specific samples in the time domain". Fr= equency components are not a relevant concept in the time domain. <br= >=0A<br></span></div><span style=3D"background-color:transparent;">Possibly= what you want is something like LPC whitening with residual coding. = See for example:</span><br><span style=3D"color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-fami= ly: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; font-variant: n= ormal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 16.12px; t= ext-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0= px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; display: inline !imp= ortant;">Singhal, Sharad. "High quality audio coding using multipulse LPC."= <span class=3D"yiv9729100209"> </span></span><i style=3D"color: rgb(34, 34,= 34); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-variant: normal= ; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 16.12px; text-i= ndent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; b= ackground-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">ICASSP</i><span style=3D"color: rgb(3= 4, 34, 34); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-style: normal; = font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-hei= ght: 16.12px; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float: none; displ= ay: inline !important;">, 1990.<br>=0A<br></span></div><span style=3D"color= : rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-st= yle: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: nor= mal; line-height: 16.12px; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-sp= ace: normal; word-spacing: 0px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); float= : none; display: inline !important;">Dick<br>=0A<br></span></div><div class= =3D"yiv9729100209gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"yiv9729100209gmail_quot= e">On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 3:05 AM, JesterN Alberto Novello <span dir=3D"ltr= "><<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:jestern77@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_= blank" href=3D"mailto:jestern77@xxxxxxxx">jestern77@xxxxxxxx</a>></span>= wrote:<br>=0A<blockquote class=3D"yiv9729100209gmail_quote" style=3D"margi= n:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div><div style= =3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetic= a, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;"><div>=0A<span>Hi all,</span></div><= div style=3D"font-style:normal;font-size:13px;background-color:transparent;= font-family:HelveticaNeue,;"><span>i'm trying to find a way to approximate = the sample values of an audio waveform in time domain.</span></div>=0A<div = style=3D"font-style:normal;font-size:13px;background-color:transparent;font= -family:HelveticaNeue,;"><span>I want a method that takes care of approxima= ting perceptually-relevant audio bands better than others.</span></div>=0A<= div style=3D"font-style:normal;font-size:13px;background-color:transparent;= font-family:HelveticaNeue,;"><span>Basically a spectral-weighted temporal a= pproximation method. </span></div>=0A<div style=3D"font-style:normal;f= ont-size:13px;background-color:transparent;font-family:HelveticaNeue,;"><sp= an>In my head it's not clear how to connect frequency components </spa= n><span style=3D"background-color:transparent;">to specific samples in the = time domain. </span></div>=0A<div style=3D"font-style:normal;font-size= :13px;background-color:transparent;font-family:HelveticaNeue,;"><span>Any D= SP wizard out there with a good idea/papers ?</span></div>=0A<div></div><di= v>Best regards</div><div>Alberto </div><div><br></div><div style=3D"fo= nt-style: normal; background-color: transparent; font-family: arial, helvet= ica, clean, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: n= ormal; font-variant: normal; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; line-= height: normal; border-collapse: separate; text-transform: none; font-size:= 16px; white-space: normal; font-family: Helvetica; word-spacing: 0px;"><fo= nt face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#999999"><font>|| | | ||| | || = || | ||||| || | || | ||| | ||||| | | ||| | |||| | || ||||</font></fo= nt></font></span><span style=3D"text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; f= ont-variant: normal; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: = normal; border-collapse: separate; text-transform: none; font-size: 16px; w= hite-space: normal; font-family: Helvetica; word-spacing: 0px;"><font face= =3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#999999"><font><font><br>=0A<span style=3D"font-s= ize:10px;"> </span><br></font></font></font></font></span><span style= =3D"font-weight:bold;">ALBERTO NOVELLO / JesterN</span><br>site: <span styl= e=3D"font-weight:bold;"><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http:= //jestern.com/">jestern.com</a></span><br>=0Ashop: <span style=3D"font-weig= ht:bold;"><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://jestern.band= camp.com/">jestern.bandcamp.com</a></span><br>audio: <span style=3D"font-we= ight:bold;"><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://soundcloud= .com/jestern">soundcloud.com/jestern</a></span><br>=0Avideo: <span style=3D= "font-weight:bold;"><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://vi= meo.com/jestern">vimeo.com/jestern</a></span><span style=3D"text-indent: 0p= x; letter-spacing: normal; font-variant: normal; font-style: normal; font-w= eight: normal; line-height: normal; border-collapse: separate; text-transfo= rm: none; font-size: 16px; white-space: normal; font-family: Helvetica; wor= d-spacing: 0px;"><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#999999"><span style= =3D"text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; font-variant: normal; font-st= yle: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; border-collapse: sep= arate; text-transform: none; font-size: 16px; white-space: normal; font-fam= ily: Helvetica; word-spacing: 0px;"><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#99= 9999"><font><font><font><span style=3D"text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: no= rmal; font-variant: normal; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; line-h= eight: normal; border-collapse: separate; text-transform: none; font-size: 16px; white-space: normal; font-family: Helvetica; word-spacing= : 0px;"><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#999999"><font><br>=0A<span sty= le=3D"font-size:10px;"> </span><br>|| | | ||| | || || | ||= ||| || | || | ||| | ||||| | | ||| | |||| | || ||||</font></font></fon= t></span><span style=3D"text-indent: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; font-vari= ant: normal; font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; = border-collapse: separate; text-transform: none; font-size: 16px; white-spa= ce: normal; font-family: Helvetica; word-spacing: 0px;"></span></font></fon= t></font></font></font></span></font></font></span><span style=3D"text-inde= nt: 0px; letter-spacing: normal; font-variant: normal; font-style: normal; = font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; border-collapse: separate; text-t= ransform: none; font-size: 16px; white-space: normal; font-family: Helvetic= a; word-spacing: 0px;"><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#AAAAAA"><br>=0A= <br></font></font></span></div><div style=3D"font-style: normal; background= -color: transparent; font-family: arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;"><sp= an style=3D"font-size:10px;">If for any reason you wish not to receive any = more messages from this email, please send an email with REMOVE as subject.= I'm sorry for the inconvenience. <br>=0A</span></div><div style=3D"font-st= yle: normal; font-size: 13px; background-color: transparent; font-family: a= rial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"font-size:x-small;">Se = per qualsiasi ragione non desideri ricevere piu' messaggi da questo indiriz= zo, mandami un messaggio con REMOVE nel soggetto. Mi scuso per il disturbo.= </span><br>=0A</div></div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div><br><br>= </div> </div> </div> </div> </div></body></html> ---357169082-683253156-1394108849=:62963--