Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] How to speak to people about hearing loss and high sound pressure levels From: "Enrique A. Lopez Poveda" <ealopezpoveda@xxxxxxxx> Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2013 08:26:53 +0200 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080108050606040506090109 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, This is an important topic. I fully agree that most people are unaware=20 of the auditory damage unusually high sound levels can provoke. I=20 sometimes carry earplugs myself to loud parties (or make them on the go)=20 but my friends think I am a fool. I often reply "if you only you knew=20 what I know..." Jon Boley already mentioned the evidence published by Liberman and=20 collegues that exposure to loud sounds can produce permanent and=20 irreversible loss of auditory nerve fibers (Liberman et al. 2009; Furman=20 et al. 2013) that may be clinically unnoticed. I would like to add that=20 we have shown that this type of damage (deafferentation) probably=20 explains why people ofter report that they "can hear but not understand"=20 (Lopez-Poveda & Barrios, 2013). You may find some relevant publications in the following links: http://www.jneurosci.org/content/29/45/14077.long http://jn.physiology.org/content/110/3/577.long http://www.frontiersin.org/Auditory_Cognitive_Neuroscience/10.3389/fnins.= 2013.00124/abstract=20 All best, - Enrique El 14/10/2013 1:43, Jon Boley escribi=F3: > A couple days ago, there was a symposium on this topic, hosted by=20 > Northwestern University=20 > (http://comm.soc.northwestern.edu/knowles-hearing-center/symposium-2013= /).=20 > > Benj Kanters talked about a workshop that he teaches, mostly to=20 > students in music and audio engineering. (http://www.heartomorrow.org/) > He also argued for a grassroots approach, in which people lead by=20 > example (wear hearing protection yourself) and even bring cheap=20 > protection to give away to others. > > For example, here are some for $0.10 per pair:=20 > http://www.amazon.com/Classic-Uncorded-Earplugs-Value-390-1000/dp/B0006= GWRY0/ref=3Dpd_sim_sbs_hpc_2 > I often take a few packs of these with me to events (I usually keep=20 > some in my car, suitcase, etc) and offer them to friends/family. > > Of course, people who really appreciate music may want something that=20 > preserves the fidelity as much as possible. For those people, there=20 > are earplugs designed to have a relatively flat frequency response.=20 > They are often called "musician's earplugs" or "hi-fidelity earplugs"=20 > and often start around $10-12 (USD). > Mead Killion pointed out that Etymotic has a program where you can=20 > donate several of these to your local school's band program. > http://www.etymotic.com/adoptaband/about.html > > As for leading by example, Benj showed a great picture from a few=20 > years ago, in which Drew Brees had his young son wearing hearing=20 > protection at the Super Bowl.=20 > http://healthyliving.blog.ocregister.com/files/2010/04/Brees_Blog.jpg > > By the way, Charlie Liberman has some convincing evidence that=20 > "temporary" hearing loss often cause neural damage in the cochlea=20 > (which does not appear to recover). This neural damage may not be=20 > detected with an audiogram, but would probably make it more difficult=20 > to hear in noisy (cocktail party) environments. > http://comm.soc.northwestern.edu/knowles-hearing-center/files/2013/07/T= he_Biology_of_Noise_Liberman_Abstrect.pdf > > > > > > On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 12:09 AM, Kevin Austin=20 > <kevin.austin@xxxxxxxx <mailto:kevin.austin@xxxxxxxx>> wrote: > > An on-going topic -- very high level [dB] sounds, hearing loss, > personal and societal responsibility. > > Once or twice a year I am invited and go to an event where the > sustained sound pressure [dB] levels will be in excess of 95dB, > and often into the 105 - 110+ dB range. I am usually long gone > before the levels have drifted up to this point, however they > usually start in the 85-90dB range. I use a combination of > Vaseline [petroleum jelly], and water- [spit-] soaked paper > tissues / Kleenex, to seal my ear canals. At the last two events I > left, about 20% of the people were babies or children under 7-9. > They were brought close to the speaker stacks, and the younger > children enjoyed playing in front of the speakers. > > My question is not one about NIHL etc, which is documented, but > rather one of how to speak to the people responsible, before > and/or after the event about the damage that is being caused by > these environments. If this were a work place, there would be > laws, rules, regulations and ways of changing the behavior. In > these social environments, rules and regulations don't apply. And > I'm talking 3 or more hours of continuous 105+dB. > > There are currently two students in our university electroacoustic > studies program who have reported their hearing condition to me in > some detail, along with audiograms, and possible hyperacusis. > Discussing this with many younger people tends towards the > "teenage invincibility syndrome" [will never happen to me], and in > older people, there is a general ignorance or lack of > understanding, often paired with an attitude that indicates, "if > it really is a problem, there would be laws about it". There are. > But, in my experience, there is a fundamental ignorance of what > happens, and what has been happening for the past 35 - 40 years. > > As the professionals in the field, what can be done? and how can > it be done? Is it a matter of this "silent plague", simply eating > up the hearing of those who are under 40 such that they will not > be able to hear in 15 - 25 years. > > Recently, this appeared: > > Thu, 09/12/2013 > >> Blake Wilson, Graeme Clark, and Ingeborg Hochmair were awarded > the Lasker Award this week for their contributions to the > development of the cochlear implant. The Lasker Award is > essentially the American Nobel prize, and this is an incredible > recognition of not only the importance of cochlear implant > technology but also a much broader acknowledgment of the > importance of hearing and communication by the entire scientific > community. There will be several events over the next few months > building on this recognition with interviews with the Lasker > awardees, a dedicated one-hour show on PBS with Charlie Rose and > Eric Kandel on hearing, and finally a two-day workshop sponsored > by the Institute of Medicine on hearing loss in older adults in > January. > > It is noted that this seems to be mostly about cochlea-based > hearing loss in older adults. > > > Other items on stem cell research growing back hair cells have > been seen in the media. However, these reports do not address a > major cause of the problem, exposure to high dB levels. As I > understand it, this developing technology may have little effect > on tinnitus caused by nerve damage. > > Are there ways to have the media take cognizance of and report on > the dangerous environments which persist? > > As professionals, is there any individual or group responsibility > regarding making this better known and the [likely] consequences > more clearly understood? Is this like the cigarette situation > where the 'evil' is not only socially acceptable, but expected so > that the event has 'street cred'? Club owners and Rave organizers > want blood-letting levels, "because the customers want it". > > > Kevin > > --=20 Enrique A. Lopez-Poveda, Ph.D. Instituto de Neurociencias de Castilla y Le=F3n Departamento de Cirug=EDa, Facultad de Medicina Instituto de Investigaci=F3n Biom=E9dica de Salamanca Universidad de Salamanca Calle Pintor Fernando Gallego 1, 37007 Salamanca, Spain Phone: (+34)923294500 ext. 1957. Fax: (+34)923294750 Website: http://audiolab.usal.es http://fundacion.usal.es/audiologia --------------080108050606040506090109 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <html> <head> <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Dear all,<br> <br> This is an important topic. I fully agree that most people are unaware of the auditory damage unusually high sound levels can provoke. I sometimes carry earplugs myself to loud parties (or make them on the go) but my friends think I am a fool. I often reply "if you only you knew what I know..." <br> <br> Jon Boley already mentioned the evidence published by Liberman and collegues that exposure to loud sounds can produce permanent and irreversible loss of auditory nerve fibers (Liberman et al. 2009; Furman et al. 2013) that may be clinically unnoticed. I would like to add that we have shown that this type of damage (deafferentation) probably explains why people ofter report that they "can hear but not understand" (Lopez-Poveda & Barrios, 2013).<br> <br> You may find some relevant publications in the following links:<br> <br> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.jneurosci.org/content/29/45/14077.long">http://www.jneurosci.org/content/29/45/14077.long</a> <br> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://jn.physiology.org/content/110/3/577.long">http://jn.physiology.org/content/110/3/577.long</a><br> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.frontiersin.org/Auditory_Cognitive_Neuroscience/10.3389/fnins.2013.00124/abstract">http://www.frontiersin.org/Auditory_Cognitive_Neuroscience/10.3389/fnins.2013.00124/abstract</a> <br> <br> All best,<br> <br> - Enrique<br> <br> El 14/10/2013 1:43, Jon Boley escribió:<br> </div> <blockquote cite="mid:26291_1381724027_525B6F7B_26291_159_1_16330_1381707796_525B3013_16330_2_1_CAEsLNSLUAUU0iGBChsDiCe4jqKtDN0LZPJ7X6fXcY8-cF1Bsrg@xxxxxxxx" type="cite"> <div dir="ltr">A couple days ago, there was a symposium on this topic, hosted by Northwestern University (<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://comm.soc.northwestern.edu/knowles-hearing-center/symposium-2013/">http://comm.soc.northwestern.edu/knowles-hearing-center/symposium-2013/</a>). <div> Benj Kanters talked about a workshop that he teaches, mostly to students in music and audio engineering. (<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.heartomorrow.org/">http://www.heartomorrow.org/</a>)</div> <div>He also argued for a grassroots approach, in which people lead by example (wear hearing protection yourself) and even bring cheap protection to give away to others.</div> <div><br> </div> <div> <div class="gmail_extra">For example, here are some for $0.10 per pair: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.amazon.com/Classic-Uncorded-Earplugs-Value-390-1000/dp/B0006GWRY0/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hpc_2">http://www.amazon.com/Classic-Uncorded-Earplugs-Value-390-1000/dp/B0006GWRY0/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hpc_2</a></div> <div class="gmail_extra">I often take a few packs of these with me to events (I usually keep some in my car, suitcase, etc) and offer them to friends/family.</div> <div class="gmail_extra"><br> </div> <div class="gmail_extra"> Of course, people who really appreciate music may want something that preserves the fidelity as much as possible. For those people, there are earplugs designed to have a relatively flat frequency response. They are often called "musician's earplugs" or "hi-fidelity earplugs" and often start around $10-12 (USD).</div> <div class="gmail_extra">Mead Killion pointed out that Etymotic has a program where you can donate several of these to your local school's band program.</div> <div class="gmail_extra"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.etymotic.com/adoptaband/about.html">http://www.etymotic.com/adoptaband/about.html</a><br> </div> <div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"> <div>As for leading by example, Benj showed a great picture from a few years ago, in which Drew Brees had his young son wearing hearing protection at the Super Bowl. <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://healthyliving.blog.ocregister.com/files/2010/04/Brees_Blog.jpg">http://healthyliving.blog.ocregister.com/files/2010/04/Brees_Blog.jpg</a><br> <br> </div> <div class="gmail_extra">By the way, Charlie Liberman has some convincing evidence that "temporary" hearing loss often cause neural damage in the cochlea (which does not appear to recover). This neural damage may not be detected with an audiogram, but would probably make it more difficult to hear in noisy (cocktail party) environments.</div> <div class="gmail_extra"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://comm.soc.northwestern.edu/knowles-hearing-center/files/2013/07/The_Biology_of_Noise_Liberman_Abstrect.pdf">http://comm.soc.northwestern.edu/knowles-hearing-center/files/2013/07/The_Biology_of_Noise_Liberman_Abstrect.pdf</a><br> </div> <div class="gmail_extra"><br> </div> <div class="gmail_extra"><br> </div> <div class="gmail_extra"><br> </div> <br> <br> <div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Oct 13, 2013 at 12:09 AM, Kevin Austin <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:kevin.austin@xxxxxxxx" target="_blank">kevin.austin@xxxxxxxx</a>></span> wrote:<br> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">An on-going topic -- very high level [dB] sounds, hearing loss, personal and societal responsibility.<br> <br> Once or twice a year I am invited and go to an event where the sustained sound pressure [dB] levels will be in excess of 95dB, and often into the 105 - 110+ dB range. I am usually long gone before the levels have drifted up to this point, however they usually start in the 85-90dB range. I use a combination of Vaseline [petroleum jelly], and water- [spit-] soaked paper tissues / Kleenex, to seal my ear canals. At the last two events I left, about 20% of the people were babies or children under 7-9. They were brought close to the speaker stacks, and the younger children enjoyed playing in front of the speakers.<br> <br> My question is not one about NIHL etc, which is documented, but rather one of how to speak to the people responsible, before and/or after the event about the damage that is being caused by these environments. If this were a work place, there would be laws, rules, regulations and ways of changing the behavior. In these social environments, rules and regulations don't apply. And I'm talking 3 or more hours of continuous 105+dB.<br> <br> There are currently two students in our university electroacoustic studies program who have reported their hearing condition to me in some detail, along with audiograms, and possible hyperacusis. Discussing this with many younger people tends towards the "teenage invincibility syndrome" [will never happen to me], and in older people, there is a general ignorance or lack of understanding, often paired with an attitude that indicates, "if it really is a problem, there would be laws about it". There are. But, in my experience, there is a fundamental ignorance of what happens, and what has been happening for the past 35 - 40 years.<br> <br> As the professionals in the field, what can be done? and how can it be done? Is it a matter of this "silent plague", simply eating up the hearing of those who are under 40 such that they will not be able to hear in 15 - 25 years.<br> <br> Recently, this appeared:<br> <br> Thu, 09/12/2013<br> >> Blake Wilson, Graeme Clark, and Ingeborg Hochmair were awarded the Lasker Award this week for their contributions to the development of the cochlear implant. The Lasker Award is essentially the American Nobel prize, and this is an incredible recognition of not only the importance of cochlear implant technology but also a much broader acknowledgment of the importance of hearing and communication by the entire scientific community. There will be several events over the next few months building on this recognition with interviews with the Lasker awardees, a dedicated one-hour show on PBS with Charlie Rose and Eric Kandel on hearing, and finally a two-day workshop sponsored by the Institute of Medicine on hearing loss in older adults in January.<br> <br> It is noted that this seems to be mostly about cochlea-based hearing loss in older adults.<br> <br> <br> Other items on stem cell research growing back hair cells have been seen in the media. However, these reports do not address a major cause of the problem, exposure to high dB levels. As I understand it, this developing technology may have little effect on tinnitus caused by nerve damage.<br> <br> Are there ways to have the media take cognizance of and report on the dangerous environments which persist?<br> <br> As professionals, is there any individual or group responsibility regarding making this better known and the [likely] consequences more clearly understood? Is this like the cigarette situation where the 'evil' is not only socially acceptable, but expected so that the event has 'street cred'? Club owners and Rave organizers want blood-letting levels, "because the customers want it".<br> <span class=""><font color="#888888"><br> <br> Kevin<br> </font></span></blockquote> </div> <br> </div> </div> </div> </blockquote> <br> <br> <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- Enrique A. Lopez-Poveda, Ph.D. Instituto de Neurociencias de Castilla y León Departamento de Cirugía, Facultad de Medicina Instituto de Investigación Biomédica de Salamanca Universidad de Salamanca Calle Pintor Fernando Gallego 1, 37007 Salamanca, Spain Phone: (+34)923294500 ext. 1957. Fax: (+34)923294750 Website: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://audiolab.usal.es">http://audiolab.usal.es</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://fundacion.usal.es/audiologia">http://fundacion.usal.es/audiologia</a></pre> </body> </html> --------------080108050606040506090109--
