Re: [AUDITORY] Note durations in music (Justin London )


Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Note durations in music
From:    Justin London  <jlondon@xxxxxxxx>
Date:    Fri, 14 Jun 2013 08:03:28 -0500
List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>

--Apple-Mail-2--81699316 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 I have been working with a colleague, Wei Kunlin at Peking University, = on the distribution of note durations in classical music, and we have = been trying to use MIDI data available on the web as a source. Our = interest has been to find the durations of the longest notes in a range = of musical performances, to see if there is some absolute limit on note = duration independent of performance tempo. But this has proven more = difficult than one might think, as there are a number non-trivial = problems in the use of this data. The first is source identification. One can find a file labelled = "Mozart Piano Sonata," but then you have no other meta-data: which = sonata is it? What is its original tempo marking, key, movement/form, = and so forth (all of which may have a bearing on the performed = durations). And who is the performer? Expert? Novice? Are the = irregularities in timing due to inept performance or judiciously applied = rubato? The second is that multipart musical textures are often all put into a = single (or relatively small) number of MIDI channels--so one has to = separate out the voices to capture the underlying note durations. Even = where different parts have been put in separate channels this can arise, = as a pianist's hand can play more than one note, a violin part may have = double stops, etc., etc., as Pawel notes below. If one just looks at = the interval from note onset to note onset--which would seem = sensible--there are very small differences in onset timings for notes = that are ostensibly simultaneous; Caroline Palmer has studied these = "melody leads" in piano performance and found they are used to convey = structural information. So a lot of careful data cleanup has to be = done, and much of it has to be done by hand. Finally there are differences between apparent and effective duration(s) = of notes due to auditory streaming effects, as recently discussed by = Robert Gjerdingen on this list (the "Perceptual basis of evolving = western musical styles" thread)--what musicians call "compound melody" = can create longer effective durations as a melody skips through = different registers. =20 Nonetheless, if one can address these problems, there is a rich supply = of real performance data out there . . . All best, Justin London P.S. acutally, not many musicologists have done this kind of analysis = using real audio or MIDI data, though there have been studies of = duration that are score-based. I believe this is because = musicologists--especially music theorists--don't often think of = approaching problems this way (i.e., using empirical methods). =20 On Jun 13, 2013, at 8:59 AM, Pawe=C5=82 Ku=C5=9Bmierek wrote: > Dear Aniruddh, > =20 > I don't know of any published distributions of note durations, though = I would be surprised if many musicologists have not performed this type = of analysis. > =20 > But, there are several ways to obtain such distributions, depending on = whether you need distribution of durations in the score (as written by = the composer, A) or of an actual performance with durations varying for = expressive purposes (B). > =20 > First, it is usually easy to find downloadable MIDI files of many = pieces. These can be imported into Matlab either using your own script = (AFAIR MIDI file format is pretty straightforward) or any of = downloadable tools (Google says there is a choice). Then it will be easy = to do any statistical analysis. Depending on how the MIDI file was = created, you will get either A or B. > =20 > You can also can manually get the note duration off the score; many = scores of older (i.e., not copyrighted anymore) are available at = http://imslp.org (including your example Prelude), some are at = http://www.dlib.indiana.edu/variations/scores/. This will obviously give = you B only. > =20 > Finally, A can be obtained by reading note durations off waveform and = spectrogram of a recording, this would be most time-consuming though. > =20 > Also, please be advised that a lot of solo violin and cello music, = including the Prelude you used as an example, does contain multiple = notes played simultaneously. > =20 > Hope that helps, > =20 > Pawel > =20 ************************************************* Justin London Affiliated Researcher, Centre for Music and Science, University of = Cambridge Professor of Music (and other stuff), Carleton College Department of Music One North College St. Northfield, MN 55057 USA 507-222-4397 fax 507-222-5561 jlondon@xxxxxxxx --Apple-Mail-2--81699316 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 <html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; = "><div>I have been working with a colleague, Wei Kunlin at Peking = University, on the distribution of note durations in classical music, = and we have been trying to use MIDI data available on the web as a = source. &nbsp;Our interest has been to find the durations of the longest = notes in a range of musical performances, to see if there is some = absolute limit on note duration independent of performance tempo. = &nbsp;But this has proven more difficult than one might think, as there = are a number non-trivial problems in the use of this = data.</div><div><br></div><div>The first is source identification. = &nbsp;One can find a file labelled "Mozart Piano Sonata," but then you = have no other meta-data: which sonata is it? &nbsp;What is its original = tempo marking, key, movement/form, and so forth (all of which may have a = bearing on the performed durations). &nbsp;And who is the performer? = &nbsp;Expert? Novice? &nbsp;Are the irregularities in timing due to = inept performance or judiciously applied = rubato?</div><div><br></div><div>The second is that multipart musical = textures are often all put into a single (or relatively small) number of = MIDI channels--so one has to separate out the voices to capture the = underlying note durations. &nbsp;Even where different parts have been = put in separate channels this can arise, as a pianist's hand can play = more than one note, a violin part may have double stops, etc., etc., as = Pawel notes below. &nbsp;If one just looks at the interval from note = onset to note onset--which would seem sensible--there are very small = differences in onset timings for notes that are ostensibly simultaneous; = Caroline Palmer has studied these "melody leads" in piano performance = and found they are used to convey structural information. &nbsp;So a lot = of careful data cleanup has to be done, and much of it has to be done by = hand.</div><div><br></div><div>Finally there are differences between = apparent and effective duration(s) of notes due to auditory streaming = effects, as recently discussed by Robert Gjerdingen on this lis<font = class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Arial">t (the "<span = class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 18px; ">Perceptual basis = of evolving western musical styles" thread)--what musicians call = "compound melody" can create longer effective durations as a melody = skips through different registers. &nbsp;</span></font></div><div><font = class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Arial"><br></font></div><div><font = class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"Arial">Nonetheless, if one can = address these problems, there is a rich supply of real performance data = out there . . .</font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" = face=3D"Arial"><br></font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" = face=3D"Arial">All best,</font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span"= face=3D"Arial">Justin London</font></div><div><br></div><div>P.S. = acutally, not many musicologists have done this kind of analysis using = real audio or MIDI data, though there have been studies of duration that = are score-based. &nbsp;I believe this is because = musicologists--especially music theorists--don't often think of = approaching problems this way (i.e., using empirical methods). = &nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div><div>On Jun 13, 2013, at 8:59 AM, Pawe=C5=82= Ku=C5=9Bmierek wrote:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div = dir=3D"ltr"><div>Dear Aniruddh,</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>I don't know = of any published distributions of note durations, though I would be = surprised if many musicologists have not performed this type of = analysis.</div><div> &nbsp;</div><div>But, there are several ways to obtain such = distributions, depending on whether you need distribution of durations = in the score (as written by the composer, A) or of an actual performance = with durations varying for expressive purposes (B).</div> <div>&nbsp;</div><div>First, it is usually easy to find downloadable = MIDI files of many pieces. These can be imported into Matlab either = using your own script (AFAIR MIDI file format is pretty straightforward) = or any of downloadable tools (Google says there is a choice). Then it = will be easy to do any statistical analysis. Depending on how the MIDI = file was created, you will get either A or B.</div> <div>&nbsp;</div><div>You can also can manually get the note duration = off the score; many scores of older (i.e., not copyrighted anymore) are = available at <a href=3D"http://imslp.org/">http://imslp.org</a> = (including your example Prelude), some are at <a = href=3D"http://www.dlib.indiana.edu/variations/scores/">http://www.dlib.in= diana.edu/variations/scores/</a>. This will obviously give you B = only.</div> <div>&nbsp;</div><div>Finally, A can be obtained by reading note = durations off waveform and spectrogram of a recording, this would be = most time-consuming though.</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Also, please be = advised that a lot of solo violin and cello music, including the Prelude = you used as an example, does contain multiple notes played = simultaneously.</div> <div>&nbsp;</div><div>Hope that = helps,</div><div>&nbsp;</div><div>Pawel</div><div>&nbsp;</div></div></bloc= kquote></div><br><div> <div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; = -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" = style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; = orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: = break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" = style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; = orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: = break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" = style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; = orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: = break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" = style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: medium; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; = orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: = break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = after-white-space; = "><div><div>*************************************************</div><div>Ju= stin London</div><div>Affiliated Researcher,&nbsp;<i>Centre for Music = and Science,<span = class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></i>University of = Cambridge</div><div>Professor of Music (and other stuff),&nbsp;Carleton = College</div><div>Department of Music</div><div>One North College = St.</div><div>Northfield, MN 55057 = USA</div><div>507-222-4397</div><div>fax 507-222-5561</div><div><a = href=3D"mailto:jlondon@xxxxxxxx">jlondon@xxxxxxxx</a></div><div><b= r></div></div></div></span><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"> </div> <br></body></html>= --Apple-Mail-2--81699316--


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