Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] SV: RE: Perceptual basis of evolving western musical styles From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Pablo_Hern=E1n_Rodriguez_Zivic?= <=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Pablo_Hern=E1n_Rodriguez_Zivic?=> Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2013 08:15:19 -0300 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>--f46d043d65d3277eea04de665061 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mmm, tuff question. My guess is that it wouldn't work. I think it worked for the period of the paper, in part, because tonality was developing on that years, thus the melodic interval patterns changed. I don't think that there was such a change on the dates you speak about. Maybe it would be necessary a more fine grained statistics. Anyway, this is just a guess. On Jun 5, 2013 3:01 AM, "fr=E9d=E9ric maintenant" <fmaintenant@xxxxxxxx> wr= ote: > Sorry to interrupt again. Would you see any difference in the evolution o= f > western musical style between 1960s and 1980s? or 1900s and 1920s? FM > > > > ------------------------------ > *De :* Pablo Hern=E1n Rodriguez Zivic <elsonidoq@xxxxxxxx> > *=C0 :* AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx > *Envoy=E9 le :* Mardi 4 juin 2013 14h33 > *Objet :* Re: SV: RE: Perceptual basis of evolving western musical styles > > Hi David, > > Thank you! > I'm glad that both, Eric has a concern about my analysis, and you don't. > Otherwise, there would be no discussion :). > > With respect to the selection bias of the corpus, it may be. However, if > you look in the Supporting Information, we did a control by projecting > another corpus (the Alicante's 9GDB) into the factors, and we found very > similar results. However, I don't exactly recall how the projection value= s > where for the 9GDB corpus with respect to the IR principles. > > You are right with respect to the Baroque overshoot. Yet, the end of the > Baroque is a very arbitrary date as well, since it's the year of Bach's > death. So, it could be the case that for 20 years after Bach died, simila= r > music was still been written (maybe someone who knows more about music > history can tell me if this make sense). > > Anyway, thanks for your comments!! > > Pablo > > > > On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 7:50 AM, David Morris <dmorris@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > > Hi Pablo, > > I don't share Eric's concern about a drawback and found this article > definitely worthy of your shameless self-promotion. Congratulations. It= 's > perplexing that the closure projection results for the Classical period a= re > so low. I would have ex=E5ected them to be amongst the highest. Could t= his > relate to selection bias in the corpus, or does it have to do with the > definition (as per the Carol and Krumhansl reference which I should > probably try and wrap my feeble mind around). Also, on account of the tw= o > deaths that occured, I think that the second year overshoots the end of t= he > Baroque by 20 years, but that doesn't effect your analysis. > > All the best > > David > > > > > -- > http://pablozivic.com.ar/ > > > --f46d043d65d3277eea04de665061 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <p dir=3D"ltr">Mmm, tuff question. My guess is that it wouldn't work.</= p> <p dir=3D"ltr">I think it worked for the period of the paper, in part, beca= use tonality was developing on that years, thus the melodic interval patter= ns changed.</p> <p dir=3D"ltr">I don't think that there was such a change on the dates = you speak about. Maybe it would be necessary a more fine grained statistics= .</p> <p dir=3D"ltr">Anyway, this is just a guess.</p> <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Jun 5, 2013 3:01 AM, "fr=E9d=E9ric maint= enant" <<a href=3D"mailto:fmaintenant@xxxxxxxx">fmaintenant@xxxxxxxx= r</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" = style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div><div style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:Courier New,courier,monaco,mo= nospace,sans-serif"><font>Sorry to interrupt again. Would you see any diffe= rence in the evolution of western musical style between 1960s and 1980s? or= 1900s and 1920s? FM<br> </font><font face=3D"Arial"><br></font><div><span><br></span></div><div><br= ></div> <div style=3D"font-family:Courier New,courier,monaco,monospace,san= s-serif;font-size:12pt"> <div style=3D"font-family:times new roman,new york= ,times,serif;font-size:12pt"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <hr size=3D"1"> <font face=3D"Arial"> <b><span style=3D= "font-weight:bold">De=A0:</span></b> Pablo Hern=E1n Rodriguez Zivic <<a = href=3D"mailto:elsonidoq@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">elsonidoq@xxxxxxxx</= a>><br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">=C0=A0:</span></b> <a href= =3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx= L.CA</a> <br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Envoy=E9 le :</span></b> Mardi 4 juin = 2013 14h33<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Objet=A0:</span></b> Re:= SV: RE: Perceptual basis of evolving western musical styles<br> </font> </= div> <div><br><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi David,<div><br></div><div>Thank you!=A0<= /div><div>I'm glad that both, Eric has a concern about my analysis, and= you don't. Otherwise, there would be no discussion :).</div><div><br> </div><div>With respect to the selection bias of the corpus, it may be. How= ever, if you look in the Supporting Information, we did a control by projec= ting another corpus (the Alicante's 9GDB) into the factors, and we foun= d very similar results. However, I don't exactly recall how the project= ion values where for the 9GDB corpus with respect to the IR principles.=A0<= /div> <div><br></div><div>You are right with respect to the Baroque overshoot. Ye= t, the end of the Baroque is a very arbitrary date as well, since it's = the year of Bach's death. So, it could be the case that for 20 years af= ter Bach died, similar music was still been written (maybe someone who know= s more about music history can tell me if this make sense).</div> <div><br></div><div>Anyway, thanks for your comments!!</div><div><br></div>= <div>Pablo</div><div><br></div></div><div><br><br><div>On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 = at 7:50 AM, David Morris <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a rel=3D"nofollow" href=3D"= mailto:dmorris@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">dmorris@xxxxxxxx</a>></span= > wrote:<br> <blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l= eft:1ex">Hi Pablo,<br> <br> I don't share Eric's concern about a drawback and found this articl= e definitely worthy of your shameless self-promotion. =A0Congratulations. = =A0It's perplexing that the closure projection results for the Classica= l period are so low. =A0I would have ex=E5ected them to be amongst the high= est. =A0Could this relate to selection bias in the corpus, or does it have = to do with the definition (as per the Carol and Krumhansl reference which I= should probably try and wrap my feeble mind around). =A0Also, on account o= f the two deaths that occured, I think that the second year overshoots the = end of the Baroque by 20 years, but that doesn't effect your analysis.<= br> <br> All the best<br> <span><font color=3D"#888888"><br> David</font></span></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>= -- <br><a rel=3D"nofollow" href=3D"http://pablozivic.com.ar/" target=3D"_bl= ank">http://pablozivic.com.ar/</a> </div></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></blockquote></div> --f46d043d65d3277eea04de665061--