Re: [AUDITORY] Perceptual basis of evolving western musical styles (Pierre Divenyi )


Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Perceptual basis of evolving western musical styles
From:    Pierre Divenyi  <pdivenyi@xxxxxxxx>
Date:    Fri, 31 May 2013 08:52:23 -0700
List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>

> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3452835148_453628 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I read Pablo's PNAS paper with great interest and some nostalgia: in the late 1960s Jack Taylor and I were James Carlsen's research assistants involved in collecting and analyzing the melodic expectancy data he published in 1981. Pablo's paper opens a whole territory and incites discussion of his findings and his model. Frederic was the first to start this discussion and I hope it will go on for a while =8B I am especially interested in hearing from Dave Huron! My first reaction is that, as wonderful as the findings are, they are the fruit of a very incomplete analysis. In particular, I would like to see a subsequent combing through the database consider two temporal factors: (1) the place of a note in the metric framework (measures and N-measure themati= c chunks) and (2) the influence of tempo. With respect to the latter, it is clear that in the Baroque era alone a voice often carries a hidden polyphony, i.e., breaks down into two melodic streams, and such breakdown i= s a function of the tempo, as Leon can Noorden showed. With respect to (1), the expectations Meyer was talking about are very much dependent on where i= n the N-measure chunk (N>=3D1) the implied continuation takes place. On 5/30/13 10:59 AM, "Pablo Hern=E1n Rodriguez Zivic" <elsonidoq@xxxxxxxx> wrote: Dear Fr=E9d=E9ric, I appreciate you comments and suggested bibliography. I will certainly consider them for my next publication Sincerely, Pablo On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 5:50 AM, fr=E9d=E9ric maintenant <fmaintenant@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > This is a very intersting subject, and the abstract makes me want to read > more.. but there is a massive draw back, how can you mention in your titl= e > western musical style and not mention anything about popular music, jazz = and > contemporary music? I can read that in fact you are just interested by me= lody. > That's all right, but not mentioned in your title. Do you know that Hugue= s > Dufourt, Costin Miereanu, Salvatore Sciarrino are specifically working on= the > transformation of western melody particularly using jazz standard. Beside= , > Kaija Saariaho has developped a very specific approach to melody. And I a= m not > mentioning obviously the work of Wayne Shorter who has to my opinion push= the > idea of popular melody very far etc etc > It is time not to work on Commercial period of classical music. I remembe= r > this beautiful article on Density 21.5 by Marc Leman... this was to my op= inion > where research should have gone... unfortunatly like for many others mone= y > business has oriented his research... to help Google !! > But anyway, nice to see that music is not forgotten on the Auditory List. >=20 > Best, >=20 > Fr=E9d=E9ric Maintenant > CNRS/Panth=E9on-Sorbonne >=20 >=20 > =20 > =20 > =20 > =20 >=20 > De : Pablo Hern=E1n Rodriguez Zivic <elsonidoq@xxxxxxxx> > =C0 : AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx > Envoy=E9 le : Jeudi 30 mai 2013 1h01 > Objet : Perceptual basis of evolving western musical styles > =20 > =20 >=20 > Dear List, >=20 > I hereby announce my first "Open Access" paper "Perceptual basis of > evolving western musical styles" which appears in the Proceedings of the > National Academy of Sciences >=20 > http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/05/22/1222336110 >=20 > Thanks for your attention. >=20 > Pablo > --=20 > http://pablozivic.com.ar/ >=20 >=20 > =20 > =20 > =20 --=20 http://pablozivic.com.ar/ --B_3452835148_453628 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable <html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: s= pace; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size:= 16px; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; "><div>I read Pablo's PNAS paper wi= th great interest and some nostalgia: in the late 1960s Jack Taylor and I we= re James Carlsen's research assistants involved in collecting and analyzing = the melodic expectancy data he published in 1981. Pablo's paper opens a whol= e territory and incites discussion of his findings and his model. Frederic w= as the first to start this discussion and I hope it will go on for a while &= #8212; I am especially interested in hearing from Dave Huron!</div><div><br>= </div><div>My first reaction is that, as wonderful as the findings are, they= are the fruit of a very incomplete analysis. In particular, I would like to= see a subsequent combing through the database consider two temporal factors= : (1) the place of a note in the metric framework (measures and N-measure th= ematic chunks) and (2) the influence of tempo. With respect to the latter, i= t is clear that in the Baroque era alone a voice often carries a hidden poly= phony, i.e., breaks down into two melodic streams, and such breakdown is a f= unction of the tempo, as Leon can Noorden showed. With respect to (1), the e= xpectations Meyer was talking about are very much dependent on where in the = N-measure chunk (N&gt;=3D1) the implied continuation takes place.</div><div><b= r></div><div><br></div><span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION"><div><div>On 5/30/13 = 10:59 AM, "Pablo Hern=E1n Rodriguez Zivic" &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:elsonidoq@xxxxxxxx= .COM">elsonidoq@xxxxxxxx</a>&gt; wrote:</div></div><div><br></div><div dir=3D= "ltr">Dear&nbsp;Fr=E9d=E9ric,<div><br></div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp;I appreciate you c= omments and suggested bibliography. I will certainly consider them for my ne= xt publication</div><div><br></div><div>Sincerely,</div><div><br></div><div>= Pablo</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu,= May 30, 2013 at 5:50 AM, fr=E9d=E9ric maintenant <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"m= ailto:fmaintenant@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">fmaintenant@xxxxxxxx</a>&gt;</sp= an> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;borde= r-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style=3D"font-size:12pt;font= -family:Courier New,courier,monaco,monospace,sans-serif">This is a very inte= rsting subject, and the abstract makes me want to read more.. but there is a= massive draw back, how can you mention in your title western musical style = and not mention anything about popular music, jazz and contemporary music? I= can read that in fact you are just interested by melody. That's all right, = but not mentioned in your title. Do you know that Hugues Dufourt, Costin Mie= reanu, Salvatore Sciarrino<span style=3D"font-style:italic"> </span><span>are = specifically working on the transformation of western melody particularly us= ing jazz standard. Beside, Kaija Saariaho has developped a very specific app= roach to melody. And I am not mentioning obviously the work of Wayne Shorter= who has to my opinion push the idea of popular melody very far etc etc <br>= It is time not to work on Commercial period of classical music. I remember this beautiful article on Density 21.5 by Marc= Leman... this was to my opinion where research should have gone... unfortun= atly like for many others money business has oriented his research... to hel= p Google !!<br> But anyway, nice to see that music is not forgotten on the Auditory List.<b= r><br>Best,<br><br>Fr=E9d=E9ric Maintenant<br>CNRS/Panth=E9on-Sorbonne<br></span><= div><span><br></span></div><div><br></div> <div style=3D"font-family:Courier = New,courier,monaco,monospace,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"> <div style=3D"font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12p= t"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <hr size=3D"1"> <font face=3D"Arial"> <b><span style=3D"font-= weight:bold">De&nbsp;:</span></b> Pablo Hern=E1n Rodriguez Zivic &lt;<a href=3D"= mailto:elsonidoq@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">elsonidoq@xxxxxxxx</a>&gt;<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">=C0&nbsp;:</span></b> <a href=3D"mailto:AUDI= TORY@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx</a> <br> <b><= span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Envoy=E9 le :</span></b> Jeudi 30 mai 2013 1h01<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Objet&nbsp;:</span></b> Percept= ual basis of evolving western musical styles<br> </font> </div><div><div> <d= iv><br><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Dear List,<div><br></div><div>&nbsp; &nbsp;I here= by announce my first "Open Access" paper "Perceptual basis of evolving weste= rn musical styles" which appears in the <i>Proceedings of the National Acade= my of Sciences</i></div><div><i><br></i></div><div><a rel=3D"nofollow" href=3D"h= ttp://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/05/22/1222336110" target=3D"_blank">http= ://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/05/22/1222336110</a></div><div><br></div>= <div>Thanks for your attention.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>Pablo<br>-- <= br><a rel=3D"nofollow" href=3D"http://pablozivic.com.ar/" target=3D"_blank">http:/= /pablozivic.com.ar/</a></div></div></div><br><br></div> </div></div></div> <= /div> </div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- = <br><a href=3D"http://pablozivic.com.ar/" target=3D"_blank">http://pablozivic.co= m.ar/</a></div></div></span></body></html> --B_3452835148_453628--


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