Subject: Re: The climb of absolute pitch From: Leon van Noorden <leonvannoorden@xxxxxxxx> Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2012 09:59:17 +0100 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>The only suggestion I have on this that in speech (at least in Dutch) the - un-accented - pitch goes gradually down during a sentence. Listeners are usually not aware of this. Against this background a rise of 100 cents is more of a signal dan going down 100 cents. That AP have a stronger effect could indicate that they have a stronger connection to the pitch of their voice, which is proposed in some theories. Regards, Leon On 04 Dec 2012, at 23:38, Chuck Larson wrote: > To all of you experts on absolute pitch, I have a question for you. > > I've been following your discussion on AP musicians in hopes that I would > learn something from you that would explain some of our EEG results. We > have tested musicians with absolute pitch and relative pitch on a > vocalization experiment in which they heard their voice (through > headphones) either shift up 100 cents or down 100 cents. The shifting was > done with a harmonizer. We also recorded ERPs triggered by the onset of > the pitch-shift stimulus. In general the musicians with AP had larger > magnitude left hemisphere potentials (P200) than did the relative pitch > musicians. However, we also noted that for the UPWARD pitch-shift > stimulus, the P200 in the AP musicians, in contrast to the RP musicians, > was more strongly left lateralized than for DOWNWARD pitch shifts. I am > trying to figure out why an upward shift in voice pitch auditory feedback > in AP musicians would show stronger left hemisphere activation than a > downward pitch shift. > > I'D greatly appreciate any ideas you may have on this. > > Thanks, > > Chuck > > > > > ________________________________________ > > Chuck Larson > Dept. of Communication Sciences and Disorders > Room 3-348 > 2240 Campus Dr. > Northwestern University > Evanston, IL 60208 > Phone: 847-491-2424 > Cell: 847-830-5432 > Fax: 847-491-4975 > email: clarson@xxxxxxxx > > > > > > On 12/3/12 7:38 PM, "Kevin Austin" <kevin.austin@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> Thanks. >> >> I had been led to believe that frequency was encoded along the BM, and >> that pitch was the interpretation of this stimulus. >> >> Kevin >> >> >> >> On 2012, Dec 2, at 8:47 AM, Bob Masta wrote: >> >>> Can someone explain the supposed mechanism behind neural timing and >>> pitch shift? I don't understand what is being proposed. As I >>> undestand it, since pitch is encoded as *place* along the BM, the >>> neurons respond with a firing rate that encodes *loudness* for their >>> particular frequency place. The firing rate does not encode the >>> frequency of the sound itself. >>> >>> What am I missing here? >>> >>> Best regards, >>> >>> Bob Masta >>> >>> ============= >>> On 1 Dec 2012 at 9:50, Pierre Divenyi wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Oded, >>>> >>>> Your three-step reasoning makes sense but, indeed, it should be >>>> experimentally verified. As to the age-related change of neural >>>> oscillations, Art Wingfield believes that the brain "slows down" as we >>>> get >>>> older. Such a slowing-down could also explain the upward AP shift >>>> because >>>> our reference would shift downward. How this central effect squares >>>> with the >>>> peripheral, BM-stiffening effect is unknown but, again, could be >>>> studied in >>>> the lab. >>>> >>>> -Pierre >>>> >>>> On 12/1/12 5:17 AM, "Oded Ghitza" <oghitza@xxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Pierre, >>>> If (1) you accept Julius's model of pitch perception, (2) interpret -- >>>> as he >>>> did -- the central component of the model as a mechanism that adjusts >>>> f0 of >>>> an internal harmonic sieve to the point where the MMSE between the >>>> sieve and >>>> the input pattern is minimum, and (3) assume that such mechanism is >>>> realized >>>> by a neuronal circuitry with oscillations ("rhythms") at the core >>>> (maybe >>>> related to Langer, in the late 80's and in the context of pitch >>>> perception, >>>> who measured "temporal rings" in chicks); then, a possible way to >>>> examine >>>> the phenomenon (whether perceived pitch should go up or down, in >>>> particular), is to look at how the frequency range of neuronal >>>> oscillations >>>> change with age. >>>> -- >>>> Oded. >>>> >>> Bob Masta >>> >>> D A Q A R T A >>> Data AcQuisition And Real-Time Analysis >>> www.daqarta.com >>> Scope, Spectrum, Spectrogram, Signal Generator >>> Science with your sound card!