Subject: Re: The climb of absolute pitch From: Diana Deutsch <ddeutsch@xxxxxxxx> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2012 12:29:44 -0800 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>--Apple-Mail=_67866F7C-FF94-4340-8835-7B810AA70174 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Leon et al, It has indeed tended to go down for me, though not reliably so. The = strange thing is that I still have this feeling of certainty when I name = notes, even when I'm a semitone off. This makes me think that the effect = is peripheral in origin, and that the central auditory system still = interprets the information it receives correctly. There's a related = phenomenon that occurs when people take carbamazepine (Tegretol). Those = with absolute pitch hear a downward pitch shift that they generally = describe as around a semitone. Its extent appears to increase with = increasing frequency in an orderly fashion over a six octave range. = Braun and Chaloupa (Hearing Research, 2005, 210, 85-92) were able to = plot this in a concert pianist with absolute pitch who made judgments = both under carbamazepine and under placebo. Cheers, Diana Deutsch On Nov 30, 2012, at 1:25 AM, Leon van Noorden wrote: > Brian, >=20 > So for the optimists it should go down. > I believe that Diana has found that in some cases indeed it goes down. > I my case it has gone up one step of the the scale. However, I am not = a real pessimist. >=20 > Leon >=20 > On 30 Nov 2012, at 10:19, Brian Gygi wrote: >=20 >> Maybe it's the world that has changed and not you - it got lower = (i.e., darker, sadder) >> =20 >> Brian Gygi, Ph.D. >> =20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Pierre Divenyi [mailto:pdivenyi@xxxxxxxx >> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2012 11:10 AM >> To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx >> Subject: The climb of absolute pitch >>=20 >> Hi, >>=20 >> Several older persons who have had absolute pitch in their young = years experience perceiving a pitch by at least a half-tone (minor = second) higher than what it actually is ? a phenomenon that the French = calls the "climb of the tuning fork" ("montee du diapason"). Since I am = one of those unfortunate individuals, I have been wondering what its = physiological explanation is. Can anyone on the list offer one? >>=20 >> -Pierre Divenyi >=20 --Apple-Mail=_67866F7C-FF94-4340-8835-7B810AA70174 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii <html><head></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; = "><div><br></div>Hi Leon et al,<div><br></div><div>It has indeed tended = to go down for me, though not reliably so. The strange thing is = that I still have this feeling of certainty when I name notes, even when = I'm a semitone off. This makes me think that the effect is peripheral in = origin, and that the central auditory system still interprets the = information it receives correctly. There's a related phenomenon that = occurs when people take carbamazepine (Tegretol). Those with absolute = pitch hear a downward pitch shift that they generally describe as around = a semitone. Its extent appears to increase with increasing = frequency in an orderly fashion over a six octave range. Braun and = Chaloupa (Hearing Research, 2005, 210, 85-92) were able to plot this in = a concert pianist with absolute pitch who made judgments both = under carbamazepine and under = placebo.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div><br></div><div>Diana = Deutsch</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div><div>On = Nov 30, 2012, at 1:25 AM, Leon van Noorden wrote:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Dus-ascii"><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; = -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; = "><div>Brian,</div><div><br></div>So for the optimists it should go = down.<div>I believe that Diana has found that in some cases indeed it = goes down.</div><div>I my case it has gone up one step of the the scale. = However, I am not a real = pessimist.</div><div><br></div><div>Leon</div><div><br><div><div>On 30 = Nov 2012, at 10:19, Brian Gygi wrote:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Maybe it's = the world that has changed and not you - it got lower (i.e., darker, = sadder)<br><div><font face=3D"Verdana" size=3D"2"> </font></div> Brian Gygi, Ph.D.<div><font color=3D"#0000ff" face=3D"Verdana" = size=3D"2"></font> </div> <blockquote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: = #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><font face=3D"Tahoma" = size=3D"2">-----Original Message-----<br><b>From:</b> Pierre Divenyi = [mailto:pdivenyi@xxxxxxxx<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November = 29, 2012 11:10 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a = href=3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx">AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx</a><br><= b>Subject:</b> The climb of absolute pitch<br><br></font><table = id=3D"201179" border=3D"0" height=3D"400" width=3D"100%" = style=3D"position: static; z-index: auto; "><tbody><tr><td valign=3D"top" = width=3D"100%"><div>Hi,</div><div><br></div><div>Several older persons = who have had absolute pitch in their young years experience perceiving a = pitch by at least a half-tone (minor second) higher than what it = actually is ? a phenomenon that the French calls the "climb of the = tuning fork" ("montee du diapason"). Since I am one of those unfortunate = individuals, I have been wondering what its physiological explanation = is. Can anyone on the list offer one?</div><div><br></div><div>-Pierre = Divenyi</div> </td></tr></tbody></table></blockquote> </blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br><div = apple-content-edited=3D"true"> <span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; = color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; = font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; = letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: = auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" = style=3D"font-size: 12px; "><div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span></span> </div> <br></div></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail=_67866F7C-FF94-4340-8835-7B810AA70174--