Subject: Re: exploitation of "Auditory List" as a free "Article Request" list From: Brian Gygi <bgygi@xxxxxxxx> Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2012 12:18:33 +0000 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>----=_vm_0011_W554248098_14750_1344255513 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I personally like seeing all the old refs to works in German from 1905 an= d the like. So, let's make a rule that you can only ask for obscure ancie= nt papers with funny sounding titles! Brian Gygi, Ph.D. Senior Research Fellow NIHR National Biomedical Research Unit in Hearing 113 The Ropewalk Nottingham, UK NG1 5DU -----Original Message----- From: Tom Barker [mailto:thomas.barker@xxxxxxxx Sent: Monday, August 6, 2012 05:09 AM To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx Subject: Re: exploitation of "Auditory List" as a free "Article Request" = list Brian's position is understandable. Creating too much noise from constant= article requests reduces the ability for useful discussion on the list. = >From a selfish point of view, it is simply more efficient to request an u= navailable (on my university's library subscription) article here, and re= ceive responses within a few minutes, than to travel to the other univers= ity or public library in my city and work out how the request system work= s there. There is also the (serious) issue of intellectual property rights. I pers= onally feel uncomfortable with a request for a PDF of an entire book here= . Clearly, in most jurisdictions, photocopying an entire book is not lega= l. This list is a useful resource, and it is unfair on the list owners (l= ocated in the US) to subject them to any liability for the lists misuse i= n this regard. I am not sure about the general case of copying of a single journal or co= nference paper, but in the UK I believe it was acceptable to copy a singl= e book chapter, conference paper or journal article within the University= . Electronic transmission might be treated differently, but I would advis= e against anyone fulfilling requests directly to the list, instead postin= g directly to the address of anyone requesting the article. Requests for articles may raise general awareness of interesting publicat= ions, and this is definitely one benefit from posting requests here. Tom On 06/08/12 14:38, Marcelo Caetano wrote: Dear Brian and members of the l= ist, I disagree with Brian's characterization of article requests as "rather e= xcessive use of this list for obtaining articles". Personally, I have a h= unch that the frequent article requests might better reflect flaws in the= library system (amongs others) rather than plain laziness. Unfortunately, I don't have data to confirm this impression (does anyone?= ). However, we usually see immediate responses to article requests made o= n the list, in opposition to the alternatives Brian points out. Ultimatel= y, I feel that this discussion is very in line with ongoing debates on is= sues about intellectual and property rights, and I think we all could ver= y much benefit from actively engaging in it. Marcelo Caetano De: Brian FG Katz mailto:brian.katz@xxxxxxxx Para:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx Enviadas: Segunda-feira, 6 de Agosto de 2012 11:57 Assunto: [AUDITORY] exploitation of "Auditory List" as a free "Article Re= quest" list Dear list members, I would like to bring to people's attention the rather excessive use of t= his list for obtaining articles. While I understand that some articles may be= hard to find, being old, or in obscure journals, the constant flow of requests for articles that are clearly available, albeit for a fee, is something of an abuse of the list and also the library system. Student especially should profit from the systems in place at their respective institutions, and if need be actually go to a library. Many libraries also offer article retrieval services, which should be *fully* exploited before make a global request to the open community. Students are also encouraged to contact the authors directly to obtain difficult articles, as a means of expressing interest, and possibly openi= ng a dialog. Only as a last resort should the list be used as a resource for "freely" obtaining your bibliographic references. Cordially, -Brian FG Katz -- Brian FG Katz, Ph.D Audio & Acoustique LIMSI-CNRS BP 133 F91403 Orsay France tel. (+33) 01 69 85 81 55 fax. (+33) 01.69.85.80.88 e-mail Brian.Katz@xxxxxxxx <mailto:Brian.Katz@xxxxxxxx> web_theme: http://www.limsi.fr/Scientifique/aa/thmsonesp/ web_group: http://www.limsi.fr/Scientifique/aa/ ----=_vm_0011_W554248098_14750_1344255513 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><DIV><FONT size=3D2 face=3DVerdana></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I personally like seeing all the old refs to works in= German from 1905 and the like. So, let's make a rule that you can = only ask for obscure ancient papers with funny sounding titles!</FONT></D= IV> <P><FONT size=3D2>Brian Gygi, Ph.D. <BR>Senior Research Fellow <BR>NIHR N= ational Biomedical Research Unit in Hearing <BR>113 The Ropewalk <BR>Nott= ingham, UK NG1 5DU</FONT> <BR></P> <P mce_keep=3D"true"> </P> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2 face=3DVerdana></FONT> </DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; M= ARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT size=3D2 face=3DTahoma>-----Ori= ginal Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Tom Barker [mailto:thomas.barker@xxxxxxxx= I]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, August 6, 2012 05:09 AM<BR><B>To:</B> AUDITORY= @xxxxxxxx<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: exploitation of "Auditory List" a= s a free "Article Request" list<BR><BR></FONT> <TABLE id=3D201179 border=3D0 width=3D"100%" bgColor=3D#ffffff height=3D4= 00 text=3D"#000000"> <TBODY> <TR> <TD vAlign=3Dtop width=3D"100%">Brian's position is understandable. Creat= ing too much noise from constant article requests reduces the ability for= useful discussion on the list. <BR><BR>From a selfish point of view, it = is simply more efficient to request an unavailable (on my university's li= brary subscription) article here, and receive responses within a few minu= tes, than to travel to the other university or public library in my city = and work out how the request system works there.<BR><BR>There is also the= (serious) issue of intellectual property rights. I personally feel uncom= fortable with a request for a PDF of an entire book here. Clearly, in mos= t jurisdictions, photocopying an entire book is not legal. This list is a= useful resource, and it is unfair on the list owners (located in the US)= to subject them to any liability for the lists misuse in this regard.<BR= ><BR>I am not sure about the general case of copying of a single journal = or conference paper, but in the UK I believe it was acceptable to copy a = single book chapter, conference paper or journal article within the Unive= rsity. Electronic transmission might be treated differently, but I would = advise against anyone fulfilling requests directly to the list, instead p= osting directly to the address of anyone requesting the article. <BR><BR>= Requests for articles may raise general awareness of interesting publicat= ions, and this is definitely one benefit from posting requests here. = ; <BR><BR>Tom<BR><BR>On 06/08/12 14:38, Marcelo Caetano wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE cite=3Dmid:10003_1344253917_501FAFDD_10003_71_1_1344253083.24= 893.YahooMailNeo@xxxxxxxx type=3D"cite"> <DIV style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #fff; FONT-FAMILY: times new roma= n, new york, times, serif; COLOR: #000; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <DIV><SPAN>Dear Brian and members of the list,</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN>I disagree with Brian's characterization of article requests a= s "rather excessive use of this list for obtaining articles". Personally,= I have a hunch that the frequent article requests might better reflect f= laws in the library system (amongs others) rather than plain lazines= s.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN>Unfortunately, I don't have data to confirm this impression (d= oes anyone?). However, we usually see immediate responses to article requ= ests made on the list, in opposition to the alternatives Brian point= s out. Ultimately, I feel that this discussion is very in line with = ongoing debates on issues about intellectual and property rights, and I t= hink we all could very much benefit from actively engaging in it.</S= PAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN>Marcelo Caetano</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; MARGIN-TOP: 5= px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px"> <DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, = serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, = serif; FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT size=3D2 face=3DArial><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT:= bold">De:</SPAN></B> Brian FG Katz <A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-rfc2396E href= =3D"mailto:brian.katz@xxxxxxxx" target=3D_blank mce_href=3D"mailto:brian.= katz@xxxxxxxx">mailto:brian.katz@xxxxxxxx</A><BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-W= EIGHT: bold">Para:</SPAN></B> <A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated href=3D= "mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx" target=3D_blank mce_href=3D"mailto:AUDI= TORY@xxxxxxxx">AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx</A> <BR><B><SPAN style=3D"= FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Enviadas:</SPAN></B> Segunda-feira, 6 de Agosto de 201= 2 11:57<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Assunto:</SPAN></B> [AUDI= TORY] exploitation of "Auditory List" as a free "Article Request" list<BR= ></FONT></DIV><BR>Dear list members,<BR><BR>I would like to bring to peop= le's attention the rather excessive use of this<BR>list for obtaining art= icles. While I understand that some articles may be<BR>hard to find, bein= g old, or in obscure journals, the constant flow of<BR>requests for artic= les that are clearly available, albeit for a fee, is<BR>something of an a= buse of the list and also the library system. <BR><BR>Student especially = should profit from the systems in place at their<BR>respective institutio= ns, and if need be actually go to a library. Many<BR>libraries also offer= article retrieval services, which should be *fully*<BR>exploited before = make a global request to the open community. <BR><BR>Students are also en= couraged to contact the authors directly to obtain<BR>difficult articles,= as a means of expressing interest, and possibly opening<BR>a dialog. <BR= ><BR>Only as a last resort should the list be used as a resource for "fre= ely"<BR>obtaining your bibliographic references. <BR><BR>Cordially,<BR><B= R>-Brian FG Katz<BR>--<BR>Brian FG Katz, Ph.D<BR>Audio & Acoustique<B= R>LIMSI-CNRS<BR>BP 133<BR>F91403 Orsay<BR>France<BR>tel. (+33) 01 69 85 8= 1 55<BR>fax. (+33) 01.69.85.80.88<BR>e-mail <A href=3D"mailto:Brian.Katz@xxxxxxxx= limsi.fr" target=3D_blank ymailto=3D"mailto:Brian.Katz@xxxxxxxx" moz-do-n= ot-send=3D"true" mce_href=3D"mailto:Brian.Katz@xxxxxxxx">Brian.Katz@xxxxxxxx= .fr</A> <mailto:<A href=3D"mailto:Brian.Katz@xxxxxxxx" target=3D_blank= ymailto=3D"mailto:Brian.Katz@xxxxxxxx" moz-do-not-send=3D"true" mce_href= =3D"mailto:Brian.Katz@xxxxxxxx">Brian.Katz@xxxxxxxx</A>><BR>web_theme:= <A href=3D"http://www.limsi.fr/Scientifique/aa/thmsonesp/" target=3D_bla= nk moz-do-not-send=3D"true" mce_href=3D"http://www.limsi.fr/Scientifique/= aa/thmsonesp/">http://www.limsi.fr/Scientifique/aa/thmsonesp/</A><BR>web_= group: <A href=3D"http://www.limsi.fr/Scientifique/aa/" target=3D_blank m= oz-do-not-send=3D"true" mce_href=3D"http://www.limsi.fr/Scientifique/aa/"= >http://www.limsi.fr/Scientifique/aa/</A><BR><BR><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQ= UOTE></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></TD></TR></TBODY> <BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></html> ----=_vm_0011_W554248098_14750_1344255513--