Re: What animal model provides the closest match to human vocalization? (Chuck Larson )


Subject: Re: What animal model provides the closest match to human vocalization?
From:    Chuck Larson  <clarson@xxxxxxxx>
Date:    Wed, 2 Mar 2011 11:49:48 -0600
List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>

--Apple-Mail-9-805924891 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Pete and others, This used to be an issue that I was actively studying. I chose the =20 macaque because I was interested in vocal production. However, as =20 others have pointed out, other animal species may be preferable for =20 other purposes. If you are interested in production, macaques are excellent because =20 the way they control vocalizations is very similar to humans, and they =20= can learn to modify their vocalizations. The neuroanatomy, including =20= sensory receptors in the larynx, has some similarities to humans. In regards to Martin' s suggestion, clinical lesion data for the =20 anterior cingulate gyrus in primates are very similar to similar =20 lesion data in humans. The major problem I sound with macaques is that they don't vocalize a =20= lot. It seems that Marmosets may be an excellent model if you want an =20= animal that is very vocal. Chuck On Mar 2, 2011, at 9:13 AM, Martin Braun wrote: > Dear Pete, and others, > > perhaps you have picked a problem that probably cannot be solved =20 > within the foreseeable future (say, 10 years). > > If you want to learn from links between mutations and disorders, =20 > your research will be confined to small, fast breeding animals. The =20= > neural systems of vocalization in these animals, however, are so =20 > much different from the human ones that it is unlikely that you will =20= > find parallels between genetically generated disorders in these =20 > animals and lesion generated disorders in humans (e.g., caused by =20 > stroke). > > It looks you would have to collect data from non-human primates and =20= > compare them with clinical lesion data from humans. > > Martin > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Martin Braun > Neuroscience of Music > S-671 95 Kl=E4ssbol > Sweden > email: nombraun@xxxxxxxx > web site: http://www.neuroscience-of-music.se/index.htm > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Howell" <p.howell@xxxxxxxx> > To: <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> > Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 3:03 PM > Subject: What animal model provides the closest match to human =20 > vocalization? > > >> Thanks everyone for your replies. I was deliberately vague as I was =20= >> interested in getting a range of suggestions (btw the goat was =20 >> really funny). Mutations in mice and zebra finches have been used =20 >> to model speech disorders where auditory feedback processes are =20 >> often thought to be implicated. The primary interest is in how CNS =20= >> connectivity is affected. But people have looked at each of these =20 >> species' vocalizations after mutation and then drawn parallels with =20= >> disordered speech. My worry about the animal models is that the =20 >> vocalization behaviors that have been observed are very different =20 >> from human speech in both its natural and disordered forms. So, I =20 >> wondered whether there was an animal model we could start with that =20= >> vocalized and heard in closer ways to humans than the existing =20 >> models. Then we could have a good look at the parallels to speech =20 >> disorders after mutation in a systematic way (whether articulatory =20= >> coordination is affected, whether they show tonic and clonic =20 >> features etc.). I'd overlooked the point Stuart made - that I =20 >> should look for species that vocalize a lot, so ta for that. We =20 >> only have limited facilities and licenses for animal work, so I am =20= >> still actively seeking suggestions, so please continue suggestions. >> Peter >> >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Psychology and Language Sciences >> University College London >> 26 Bedford Way >> London WC1H 0AP >> Direct line: 020 7 679 7566 >> Fax 020 7436 4276 >> >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Chuck Larson Chairman, Dept. of Communication Sciences and Disorders 2240 Campus Dr. Northwestern University Evanston, IL 60208 Phone: 847-491-2424 Cell: 847-830-5432 Fax: 847-491-4975 email: clarson@xxxxxxxx --Apple-Mail-9-805924891 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; = -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Dear Pete and others,<div>This = used to be an issue that I was actively studying. I chose the macaque = because I was interested in vocal production. &nbsp;However, as others = have pointed out, other animal species may be preferable for other = purposes.</div><div><br></div><div>If you are interested in production, = macaques are excellent because the way they control vocalizations is = very similar to humans, and they can learn to modify their = vocalizations. &nbsp;The neuroanatomy, including sensory receptors in = the larynx, has some similarities to humans.</div><div><br></div><div>In = regards to Martin' s suggestion, clinical lesion data for = the&nbsp;anterior cingulate gyrus&nbsp;in primates are very similar to = similar lesion data in humans. &nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>The major = problem I sound with macaques is that they don't vocalize a lot. It = seems that Marmosets may be an excellent model if you want an animal = that is very = vocal.</div><div><br></div><div>Chuck</div><div><br></div><div><div><div>O= n Mar 2, 2011, at 9:13 AM, Martin Braun wrote:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>Dear = Pete, and others,<br><br>perhaps you have picked a problem that probably = cannot be solved within the foreseeable future (say, 10 = years).<br><br>If you want to learn from links between mutations and = disorders, your research will be confined to small, fast breeding = animals. The neural systems of vocalization in these animals, however, = are so much different from the human ones that it is unlikely that you = will find parallels between genetically generated disorders in these = animals and lesion generated disorders in humans (e.g., caused by = stroke).<br><br>It looks you would have to collect data from non-human = primates and compare them with clinical lesion data from = humans.<br><br>Martin<br><br>---------------------------------------------= ------------------------<br>Martin Braun<br>Neuroscience of = Music<br>S-671 95 Kl=E4ssbol<br>Sweden<br>email: <a = href=3D"mailto:nombraun@xxxxxxxx">nombraun@xxxxxxxx</a><br>web site: = <a = href=3D"http://www.neuroscience-of-music.se/index.htm">http://www.neurosci= ence-of-music.se/index.htm</a><br><br><br><br><br>----- Original Message = ----- From: "Pete Howell" &lt;<a = href=3D"mailto:p.howell@xxxxxxxx">p.howell@xxxxxxxx</a>&gt;<br>To: = &lt;<a = href=3D"mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx">AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx</a>&gt;<= br>Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 3:03 PM<br>Subject: What animal model = provides the closest match to human vocalization?<br><br><br><blockquote = type=3D"cite">Thanks everyone for your replies. I was deliberately vague = as I was interested in getting a range of suggestions (btw the goat was = really funny). Mutations in mice and zebra finches have been used to = model speech disorders where auditory feedback processes are often = thought to be implicated. The primary interest is in how CNS = connectivity is affected. But people have looked at each of these = species' vocalizations after mutation and then drawn parallels with = disordered speech. My worry about the animal models is that the = vocalization behaviors that have been observed are very different from = human speech in both its natural and disordered forms. So, I wondered = whether there was an animal model we could start with that vocalized and = heard in closer ways to humans than the existing models. Then we could = have a good look at the parallels to speech disorders after mutation in = a systematic way (whether articulatory coordination is affected, whether = they show tonic and clonic features etc.). I'd overlooked the point = Stuart made - that I should look for species that vocalize a lot, so ta = for that. We only have limited facilities and licenses for animal work, = so I am still actively seeking suggestions, so please continue = suggestions.<br></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite">Peter<br></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite">------------------------------------------------------------= ----------<br></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Psychology and = Language Sciences<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">University = College London<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">26 Bedford = Way<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">London WC1H = 0AP<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Direct line: 020 7 679 = 7566<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Fax 020 7436 = 4276<br></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite">------------------------------------------------------------= ---------- <br></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><br><div = apple-content-edited=3D"true"> <span class=3D"Apple-style-span" = style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; = orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; = white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: = 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: = break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" = style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; = orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div><div style=3D"word-wrap: = break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = after-white-space; "><div>Chuck Larson</div><div><div style=3D"margin-top:= 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; = ">Chairman, Dept. of Communication Sciences and Disorders</div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; ">2240 Campus Dr.</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; = margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Northwestern = University</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Evanston, IL 60208</div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; ">Phone: 847-491-2424</div><div style=3D"margin-top: = 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Cell: = 847-830-5432</div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; = margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Fax: 847-491-4975</div><div = style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; = margin-left: 0px; ">email: <a = href=3D"mailto:clarson@xxxxxxxx">clarson@xxxxxxxx</a></div= ></div></div></div><div><br class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></span><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span> = </div><br></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail-9-805924891--


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