Re: About importance of "phase" in sound recognition (emad burke )


Subject: Re: About importance of "phase" in sound recognition
From:    emad burke  <emad.burke@xxxxxxxx>
Date:    Wed, 13 Oct 2010 17:09:38 +0200
List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>

--0016363b8800c16607049280fb03 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just had one question about Roy's last email, which is a intriguing question that i has been puzzling me for quite a long time, and shortly tha= t is : if the cochlear (mechanics) effects on the perception of sound are tha= t crucial as a lot of people in the cochlear modeling community also stress on, then how would you explain the hearing capabilities of the "deaf-born" patients with the help of cochlear implants that use quite a crude representation of auditory nerve spikes at least compared to super complex structures that has been developed in the cochlea over the ages. Actually there are various cases that shows after a period of learning, these people can earn a remarkably significant hearing sense. is there any explanation for this in your theorem of hearing ? Best Emad On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Roy Patterson <rdp1@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > Those interested in the mathematical basis of phase perception might lik= e > to look at a paper by Martin Reimann that appeared in JASA a few years ag= o. > After demonstrating that the cochlea preforms a wavelet transform rather > than a windowed Fourier transform, he goes on to describe how phase opera= tes > in the wavelet representation of auditory processing. > > "Invariance principles for cochlear mechanics: Hearing phases" > H. M. Reimann > Institute of Mathematics, University of Berne, Sidlerstrasse 5, CH-3012 > Berne, Switzerland > > A functional model of the cochlea is devised on the basis of the results > from classical experiments. > The basilar membrane filter is investigated in detail. Its phase is close > to linear in the region around > the peak of the amplification. On one side this has consequences for the > time analysis and on the > other side this has led to a prediction on phase perception for very simp= le > combinations of tones, a > prediction which is now confirmed by experiments. Equivariance under the > dilation group permits > one to describe the model by a wavelet transform [Daubechies, Ten Lecture= s > on Wavelets SIAM, > Philadelphia, 1992]. The wavelet is discussed in reference to the phase > analysis of the basilar > membrane filter. =A9 2006 Acoustical Society of America. DOI: > 10.1121/1.2159428 > > > With regard to why the auditory system uses a wavelet transform rather th= an > a windowed Fourier transform, Irino and Patterson (1997, 2002) have point= ed > out that the acoustic scale of the sounds produced by animals and > instruments varies with the size of the animal or instrument (within > family), and so the operator that provides the basis for the spectral > transformation performed in the cochlea should have a scale variable to > represent the variation in size. It is argued that this would help explai= n > why auditory processing is so robust to changes in source size and why > current recognitions systems based on spectrographic frontends have > difficulties with changes in source size. > > Regards Roy P > > Reimann, H. M. (2006). =93Invariance principles for cochlear mechanics: > Hearing phases,=94 J. Acoust. Soc. Am. *119**(2)**,* 997-1004. > > Irino, T. and *Patterson, R.D.* (*2002*). Segregating Information about > the Size and Shape of the Vocal Tract using a Time-Domain Auditory Model: > The Stabilised Wavelet-Mellin Transform. *Speech Communication* *36*181-2= 03. > > Irino, T. and Patterson, R.D.* (1997)*. "A time-domain. level-dependent > auditory filter: the gammachirp," J. Acoust. Soc. Am. *101*, 412-419. > cc Prof. T. Irino and Prof. M. Reimann > > -- > Roy Patterson > Centre for the Neural Basis of Hearing > Department of Physiology, Development and Neuroscience > University of Cambridge, Downing Street, Cambridge, CB2 3EG > phone +44 (0) 1223 333819 fax 333840 > email: rdp1@xxxxxxxx > > http://www.pdn.cam.ac.uk/groups/cnbh/ > http://www.AcousticScale.org > > --0016363b8800c16607049280fb03 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I just had one question about Roy&#39;s last email, which is a intriguing q= uestion that i has been puzzling me for quite a long time, and shortly that= is : if the cochlear (mechanics) effects on the perception of sound are th= at crucial as a lot of people in the cochlear modeling community also stres= s on, then how would you explain the hearing capabilities of the &quot;deaf= -born&quot; patients with the help of cochlear implants that use quite a cr= ude representation of auditory nerve spikes at least compared to super comp= lex structures that has been developed in the cochlea over the ages. Actual= ly there are various cases that shows after a period of learning, these peo= ple can earn a remarkably significant hearing sense. is there any explanati= on for this in your theorem of hearing ?=A0 <br> <br>Best<br>Emad<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at = 12:21 PM, Roy Patterson <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rdp1@xxxxxxxx= .uk">rdp1@xxxxxxxx</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo= te" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt= 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> =20 =20 =20 <div bgcolor=3D"#ffffff" text=3D"#000000"> <span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: &quot;T= imes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;"></span>Those interested in the mathematical basis of phase perception might like to look at a paper by Martin Reimann that appeared in JASA a few years ago. After demonstrating that the cochlea preforms a wavelet transform rather than a windowed Fourier transform, he goes on to describe how phase operates in the wavelet representation of auditory processing.<br> <br> &quot;Invariance principles for cochlear mechanics: Hearing phases&quot= ;<br> H. M. Reimann<br> Institute of Mathematics, University of Berne, Sidlerstrasse 5, CH-3012 Berne, Switzerland<br> <br> A functional model of the cochlea is devised on the basis of the results from classical experiments.<br> The basilar membrane filter is investigated in detail. Its phase is close to linear in the region around<br> the peak of the amplification. On one side this has consequences for the time analysis and on the<br> other side this has led to a prediction on phase perception for very simple combinations of tones, a<br> prediction which is now confirmed by experiments. Equivariance under the dilation group permits<br> one to describe the model by a wavelet transform [Daubechies, Ten Lectures on Wavelets SIAM,<br> Philadelphia, 1992]. The wavelet is discussed in reference to the phase analysis of the basilar<br> membrane filter. =A9 2006 Acoustical Society of America. DOI: 10.1121/1.2159428<br> <br> <br> <span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115%; font-family: &quot;T= imes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;"></span>With regard to why the auditory system uses a wavelet transform rather than a windowed Fourier transform, Irino and Patterson (1997, 2002) have pointed out that the acoustic scale of the sounds produced by animals and instruments varies with the size of the animal or instrument (within family), and so the operator that provides the basis for the spectral transformation performed in the cochlea should have a scale variable to represent the variation in size. It is argued that this would help explain why auditory processing is so robust to changes in source size and why current recognitions systems based on spectrographic frontends have difficulties with changes in source size. <br> <br> Regards Roy P<br> <br> =20 <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115= %; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;">Reimann, H.= M. (2006). =93Invariance principles for cochlear mechanics: Hearing phases,=94 J. Acoust. Soc. Am. <b>119</= b><b><span style=3D"font-weight: normal;">(2)</span></b><b>,</b> 997-1004.</span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115= %; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;">Irino, T. a= nd <b><span style=3D"font-weight: normal;">Patterson, R.D.</span></b> (<b>2002</b>). Segregating Information about the Size and Shape of the Vocal Tract using a Time-Domain Auditory Model: The Stabilised Wavelet-Mellin Transform. <i>Speech Communication</i> <b>36</b> 181-203. </span></p> <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt; line-height: 115= %; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;">Irino, T. a= nd Patterson, R.D.<b> (1997)</b>. &quot;A time-domain. level-dependent auditory filter: the gammachirp,&quot; <span>=A0</span>J. Acoust. Soc. Am. <b>101</b>, 412-419.</span></p> cc Prof. T. Irino and Prof. M. Reimann<br> <pre cols=3D"72">--=20 Roy Patterson Centre for the Neural Basis of Hearing Department of Physiology, Development and Neuroscience University of Cambridge, Downing Street, Cambridge, CB2 3EG phone +44 (0) 1223 333819 fax 333840 email: <a href=3D"mailto:rdp1@xxxxxxxx" target=3D"_blank">rdp1@xxxxxxxx= .uk</a><div class=3D"im"> <a href=3D"http://www.pdn.cam.ac.uk/groups/cnbh/" target=3D"_blank">http:= //www.pdn.cam.ac.uk/groups/cnbh/</a> <a href=3D"http://www.AcousticScale.org" target=3D"_blank">http://www.Aco= usticScale.org</a> </div></pre> </div> </blockquote></div><br> --0016363b8800c16607049280fb03--


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