Re: Loud music (David John SMith )


Subject: Re: Loud music
From:    David John SMith  <smithd@xxxxxxxx>
Date:    Fri, 24 Sep 2010 23:27:31 -0400
List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>

----------MB_8CD2A78B8F8154C_A74_13F6E_web-mmc-d05.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To my knowledge, the Marshal amplifier was the "gauntlet thrown down" to= start the loudness wars. It was developed at the request of Pete Townshend because Pete didn't want to= hear the audience. I=20 assume they were heckling the band.?=20 I believe most of the "effect of loudness" is due to compression in the au= ditory system.=20 Rock is quite likely the most encompassing genre term, much more diverse= than, say, European=20 classical music, and has probably evolved more forms in the past 50 years= as any other culture has in a few hundred - mostly due to commercialization enabling a large number= of practitioners and=20 technology enabling fast exchange of ideas.? But, as is reasonable to expe= ct in any endeavor,=20 - research papers come to mind here - about 80% are just uninspired, there= are very few=20 works of genius... Mostly alienated kids and dropouts listen to rock?? Ha!!!? Have you listen= ed to a college radio station recently? Gone to a college bar?? Walked through a dorm? That said, I agree that there has been a downturn in the quality of rock= - read "commercial" - music though I put it beginning in the mid '70s. A few reasons come to mind: a)= Music is necessarily a frontier. As territory is claimed exploration becomes more difficult.? b) The corpor= ate structure that grew around the music has no need for great music or the accompanying risk and expense= - they just need something to sell.? c) It's easier to "market manage" forms of music which can be pl= ayed by replaceable talent. and most dishearteningly d) Rock and jazz "yer local bands" are not about music, th= ey are about selling booze and drugs. I don't go into any rock music venue without hearing protection. I feel wa= rnings should be required, sound levels recorded, and class action law sui= ts begun.? But then I use hearing protection if I'm going to be in a car= for more than a few minutes.? The levels over longer durations, in some= frequency bands, in "yer average auto" are harmful - but to fix this we= would be messing with the auto industry and they are way more powerful th= an "the guys" running the music business. As things now stand, anyone can ruin your hearing and get away with it.?= Music is a small part of that picture. regards, Dave Smith www.roughlight.com ?=20 -----Original Message----- From: Bruno L. Giordano &lt;bruno.giordano@xxxxxxxx&gt; To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx Sent: Fri, Sep 24, 2010 7:28 pm Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Loud music Dear Linda,? ? you make interesting points, and I respect your opinion.? ? However, I don't agree with your statement that since the 60's rock has= evolved along a single path towards simplicity. Contemporary "rock" is= the product of a diaspora that has given us a large number of genres, = only part of which are as structurally primitive as you describe.? ? Concerning mainstream music, I doubt that the Beach Boys were way more = sophisticated than, say, Lady Gaga: if listening habits have the strong= psychological impact you describe, today we have as many opportunities= for becoming alienated and intellectually dull as we had 50 years ago = (and fortunately more opportunities for choosing not to).? ? Best,? ? ? Bruno? ? On 24/09/2010 7:02 PM, Linda Seltzer wrote:? &gt; In the early years of rock music, musicians such as Jimi Hendrix and= the? &gt; Jefferson Airplane turned up the volume to arouse political or socia= l? &gt; rebellion against a repressive and superficial culture. The musicol= ogist? &gt; Richard Taruskin said in classroom lectures that after the violence= of? &gt; World War II there was a reaction against the unbridled emotions of? &gt; expressionism. Postwar musical culture emphasized the control of em= otion,? &gt; as emotion was not considered something to be trusted. The evidence= of? &gt; this in classical music was the rise of twelve tone serialism and th= e? &gt; aesthetic of mathematical structures. Even a mystical composer like= ? &gt; Messiaen turned to serialism and other unemotional structures. The? &gt; rebellion against this in classical music was postmodernism, with? &gt; composers such as Glass or Goercki. In popular music, controlled em= otion? &gt; was epitomized by Frank Sinatra and even, in jazz, by Louis Armstron= g.? &gt; The rebellion took the form of the return to emotional expression by= ? &gt; Hendrix, Janis Joplin and others.? &gt;? &gt; However, rock music today has taken a different direction. With the= ? &gt; increasing cutbacks of music education in the schools, music has bec= ome? &gt; more primitive structurally even if this is hidden behind increasing= ly? &gt; expensive and complex technology. There are rock performances invol= ving a? &gt; large degree of spectacle, where the music often consists of the sin= ger? &gt; repeating the same note, occasionally making a departure to sing ano= ther? &gt; note or two. The audience does not notice that there is no melody= present? &gt; because the attention is directed to the spectacle. Similarly, the= rhythm? &gt; is very repetitive and a 1-2 rhythm with the accent on the second be= at is? &gt; considered as novel by the audience.? &gt;? &gt; Aesthetically such music feeds into the increasing forces of conserv= atism? &gt; opposing sensitivity in our society. People are accused of being? &gt; oversensitive if they complain about a slur based on race or gender.= ? &gt; Reality TV shows feature authority figures who are granted the power= to? &gt; insult the contestants, who are supposed to be able to take it and= even? &gt; appreciate it without being hurt. Workers are supposed to be like? &gt; interchangeable parts with no preferences or feelings about their of= fice? &gt; space or their work environments.? &gt;? &gt; Loud, repetitive music stamps out sensitivity or the ability to perc= eive? &gt; and react to subtle differences or variations in the social environm= ent.? &gt; What passes for music actually has the opposite effect of what we no= rmally? &gt; consider to be the purpose of music. Whereas we have traditionally? &gt; thought of music as something that stimulates elevated toughts, puts= us in? &gt; touch with our feelings, and increases our sensitivities, this so-ca= lled? &gt; music has the opposite effect of protecting the listener from such? &gt; feelings, which may impede one's ability to function as an interchan= geable? &gt; part that does not make any demands on the system. Remember that fo= r? &gt; people without college degrees, work often means having to produce? &gt; repetitive tasks in small spaces, with the output monitored by compu= ter.? &gt; Factory workers and mail sorters, for example, have their work monit= ored? &gt; and they can't drift into the normal ebb and flow of slower and fast= er? &gt; outputs in the course of a day. Retail workers are forced to listen= to? &gt; whatever music or muzak the management chooses to broadcast over the= ? &gt; loudspeakers during the entire time they are working, and they never= have? &gt; the right to silence. Silence is the pathway to introspection and? &gt; analysis, which such freedom of thought being a luxury commodity ava= ilable? &gt; to those with access to leisure time and a quiet living environment.= ? &gt;? &gt; For this reason I question whether the current loud rock "music" is? &gt; actually music at all, or, to put it another way: perhaps the variti= es of? &gt; uses of organized sound are so diverse that there is no such thing= as? &gt; music, and several of the different cultural approaches to organized= sound? &gt; and its effect on people are different phenomena. This a question= that? &gt; may be answerable by numerous scientific studies in the future.? &gt;? &gt; What can be said at present is that the current forms of loud rock= music? &gt; result from the decrease in quality of our educational systems and= the? &gt; increase in the percentage of students dropping out of high school,= in? &gt; some areas, 20%. For such individuals music is a means of numbing= their? &gt; emotional responses to the alienation and stress they experience on= the? &gt; outskirts of society and of toughening themselves for a society that= does? &gt; not tolerate their humanity.? &gt;? &gt;? =20 =20 ----------MB_8CD2A78B8F8154C_A74_13F6E_web-mmc-d05.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" <div style=3D"font-family: arial; color: black; font-size: 10pt;"> To my= knowledge, the Marshal amplifier was the "gauntlet thrown down" to start= the loudness wars. It<br> was developed at the request of Pete Townshend because Pete didn't want to= hear the audience. I <br> assume they were heckling the band.&nbsp; <br> <br> I believe most of the "effect of loudness" is due to compression in the au= ditory system. <br> <br> Rock is quite likely the most encompassing genre term, much more diverse= than, say, European <br> classical music, and has probably evolved more forms in the past 50 years= as any other culture has<br> in a few hundred - mostly due to commercialization enabling a large number= of practitioners and <br> technology enabling fast exchange of ideas.&nbsp; But, as is reasonable to= expect in any endeavor, <br> - research papers come to mind here - about 80% are just uninspired, there= are very few <br> works of genius...<br> <br> Mostly alienated kids and dropouts listen to rock?&nbsp; Ha!!!&nbsp; Have= you listened to a college radio<br> station recently? Gone to a college bar?&nbsp; Walked through a dorm?<br> <br> That said, I agree that there has been a downturn in the quality of rock= - read "commercial" - music<br> though I put it beginning in the mid '70s. A few reasons come to mind: a)= Music is necessarily a frontier.<br> As territory is claimed exploration becomes more difficult.&nbsp; b) The= corporate structure that grew around<br> the music has no need for great music or the accompanying risk and expense= - they just need something<br> to sell.&nbsp; c) It's easier to "market manage" forms of music which can= be played by replaceable talent. and most<br> dishearteningly d) Rock and jazz "yer local bands" are not about music, th= ey are about selling booze<br> and drugs.<br> <br> I don't go into any rock music venue without hearing protection. I feel wa= rnings should be required, sound levels recorded, and class action law sui= ts begun.&nbsp; But then I use hearing protection if I'm going to be in a= car for more than a few minutes.&nbsp; The levels over longer durations,= in some frequency bands, in "yer average auto" are harmful - but to fix= this we would be messing with the auto industry and they are way more pow= erful than "the guys" running the music business.<br> <br> As things now stand, anyone can ruin your hearing and get away with it.&nb= sp; Music is a small part of that picture.<br> <br> regards,<br> </div> <div> Dave Smith<br> www.roughlight.com<br> <br> <br> </div> <div>&nbsp; <br> </div> -----Original Message-----<br> From: Bruno L. Giordano &lt;bruno.giordano@xxxxxxxx&gt;<br> To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx<br> Sent: Fri, Sep 24, 2010 7:28 pm<br> Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Loud music<br> <br> =20 <div id=3D"AOLMsgPart_0_b2589eba-69f6-4a16-93d8-6a811b332c60" style=3D"mar= gin: 0px; font-family: Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif; font-size: 12px;= color: rgb(0, 0, 0); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);"> Dear Linda,= &nbsp;<br> &nbsp;<br> you make interesting points, and I respect your opinion.&nbsp;<br> &nbsp;<br> However, I don't agree with your statement that since the 60's rock has= evolved along a single path towards simplicity. Contemporary "rock" is= the product of a diaspora that has given us a large number of genres, = only part of which are as structurally primitive as you describe.&nbsp;<b= r> &nbsp;<br> Concerning mainstream music, I doubt that the Beach Boys were way more = sophisticated than, say, Lady Gaga: if listening habits have the strong= psychological impact you describe, today we have as many opportunities= for becoming alienated and intellectually dull as we had 50 years ago = (and fortunately more opportunities for choosing not to).&nbsp;<br> &nbsp;<br> Best,&nbsp;<br> &nbsp;<br> &nbsp; Bruno&nbsp;<br> &nbsp;<br> On 24/09/2010 7:02 PM, Linda Seltzer wrote:&nbsp;<br> &gt; In the early years of rock music, musicians such as Jimi Hendrix and= the&nbsp;<br> &gt; Jefferson Airplane turned up the volume to arouse political or socia= l&nbsp;<br> &gt; rebellion against a repressive and superficial culture. The musicol= ogist&nbsp;<br> &gt; Richard Taruskin said in classroom lectures that after the violence= of&nbsp;<br> &gt; World War II there was a reaction against the unbridled emotions of&= nbsp;<br> &gt; expressionism. Postwar musical culture emphasized the control of em= otion,&nbsp;<br> &gt; as emotion was not considered something to be trusted. The evidence= of&nbsp;<br> &gt; this in classical music was the rise of twelve tone serialism and th= e&nbsp;<br> &gt; aesthetic of mathematical structures. Even a mystical composer like= &nbsp;<br> &gt; Messiaen turned to serialism and other unemotional structures. The&= nbsp;<br> &gt; rebellion against this in classical music was postmodernism, with&nb= sp;<br> &gt; composers such as Glass or Goercki. In popular music, controlled em= otion&nbsp;<br> &gt; was epitomized by Frank Sinatra and even, in jazz, by Louis Armstron= g.&nbsp;<br> &gt; The rebellion took the form of the return to emotional expression by= &nbsp;<br> &gt; Hendrix, Janis Joplin and others.&nbsp;<br> &gt;&nbsp;<br> &gt; However, rock music today has taken a different direction. With the= &nbsp;<br> &gt; increasing cutbacks of music education in the schools, music has bec= ome&nbsp;<br> &gt; more primitive structurally even if this is hidden behind increasing= ly&nbsp;<br> &gt; expensive and complex technology. There are rock performances invol= ving a&nbsp;<br> &gt; large degree of spectacle, where the music often consists of the sin= ger&nbsp;<br> &gt; repeating the same note, occasionally making a departure to sing ano= ther&nbsp;<br> &gt; note or two. The audience does not notice that there is no melody= present&nbsp;<br> &gt; because the attention is directed to the spectacle. Similarly, the= rhythm&nbsp;<br> &gt; is very repetitive and a 1-2 rhythm with the accent on the second be= at is&nbsp;<br> &gt; considered as novel by the audience.&nbsp;<br> &gt;&nbsp;<br> &gt; Aesthetically such music feeds into the increasing forces of conserv= atism&nbsp;<br> &gt; opposing sensitivity in our society. People are accused of being&nb= sp;<br> &gt; oversensitive if they complain about a slur based on race or gender.= &nbsp;<br> &gt; Reality TV shows feature authority figures who are granted the power= to&nbsp;<br> &gt; insult the contestants, who are supposed to be able to take it and= even&nbsp;<br> &gt; appreciate it without being hurt. Workers are supposed to be like&n= bsp;<br> &gt; interchangeable parts with no preferences or feelings about their of= fice&nbsp;<br> &gt; space or their work environments.&nbsp;<br> &gt;&nbsp;<br> &gt; Loud, repetitive music stamps out sensitivity or the ability to perc= eive&nbsp;<br> &gt; and react to subtle differences or variations in the social environm= ent.&nbsp;<br> &gt; What passes for music actually has the opposite effect of what we no= rmally&nbsp;<br> &gt; consider to be the purpose of music. Whereas we have traditionally&= nbsp;<br> &gt; thought of music as something that stimulates elevated toughts, puts= us in&nbsp;<br> &gt; touch with our feelings, and increases our sensitivities, this so-ca= lled&nbsp;<br> &gt; music has the opposite effect of protecting the listener from such&n= bsp;<br> &gt; feelings, which may impede one's ability to function as an interchan= geable&nbsp;<br> &gt; part that does not make any demands on the system. Remember that fo= r&nbsp;<br> &gt; people without college degrees, work often means having to produce&n= bsp;<br> &gt; repetitive tasks in small spaces, with the output monitored by compu= ter.&nbsp;<br> &gt; Factory workers and mail sorters, for example, have their work monit= ored&nbsp;<br> &gt; and they can't drift into the normal ebb and flow of slower and fast= er&nbsp;<br> &gt; outputs in the course of a day. Retail workers are forced to listen= to&nbsp;<br> &gt; whatever music or muzak the management chooses to broadcast over the= &nbsp;<br> &gt; loudspeakers during the entire time they are working, and they never= have&nbsp;<br> &gt; the right to silence. Silence is the pathway to introspection and&n= bsp;<br> &gt; analysis, which such freedom of thought being a luxury commodity ava= ilable&nbsp;<br> &gt; to those with access to leisure time and a quiet living environment.= &nbsp;<br> &gt;&nbsp;<br> &gt; For this reason I question whether the current loud rock "music" is&= nbsp;<br> &gt; actually music at all, or, to put it another way: perhaps the variti= es of&nbsp;<br> &gt; uses of organized sound are so diverse that there is no such thing= as&nbsp;<br> &gt; music, and several of the different cultural approaches to organized= sound&nbsp;<br> &gt; and its effect on people are different phenomena. This a question= that&nbsp;<br> &gt; may be answerable by numerous scientific studies in the future.&nbsp= ;<br> &gt;&nbsp;<br> &gt; What can be said at present is that the current forms of loud rock= music&nbsp;<br> &gt; result from the decrease in quality of our educational systems and= the&nbsp;<br> &gt; increase in the percentage of students dropping out of high school,= in&nbsp;<br> &gt; some areas, 20%. For such individuals music is a means of numbing= their&nbsp;<br> &gt; emotional responses to the alienation and stress they experience on= the&nbsp;<br> &gt; outskirts of society and of toughening themselves for a society that= does&nbsp;<br> &gt; not tolerate their humanity.&nbsp;<br> &gt;&nbsp;<br> &gt;&nbsp;<br> </div> =20 ----------MB_8CD2A78B8F8154C_A74_13F6E_web-mmc-d05.sysops.aol.com--


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