Subject: Re: Hearing Loss "False Positives" From: "reinifrosch@xxxxxxxx" <reinifrosch@xxxxxxxx> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 10:05:45 +0000 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>------=_Part_1452_13351484.1285322745222 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Laszlo, I cannot answer your question about loud rock music. But I would like to ex= plain my point about classical tonal music in greater detail: The minor thi= rd A4-C5 in just tuning has fundamental frequencies of 440 Hz (A4) and 528 = Hz (C5). The sixth harmonic of A4 and the fifth harmonic of C5 both have a = frequency of 2640 Hz and so do not generate beats. The Equal-Temperament mi= nor third A4-C5, however, has frequencies of 440 Hz (A4) and 523.251 Hz (C5= ). In this case, the mentioned harmonics have frequencies of 2640 Hz and 26= 16.256 and so generate about 24 beats per second, fairly disagreeable and t= hus making the ET third somewhat dissonant. These high harmonics are fairly= soft even if the total loudness is high. Reinhart. ----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Nachricht---- Von: tothl@xxxxxxxx Datum: 24.09.2010 09:28 An: <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> Betreff: Re: Hearing Loss &quot;False Positives&quot; On Thu, 23 Sep 2010, reinifrosch@xxxxxxxx wrote: > Old guys with undamaged hair cells have the advantage that they can fully > enjoy classical tonal music with its change from dissonant to consonant > chords and back. According to the Helmholtz consonance theory that > change is due to the presence or absence of beats generated by pairs of > partial tones of almost equal frequencies. These partials tend to be > soft, and their frequencies tend to be high. Do you know the answer to the opposite: why is rock music more enjoyable loud? I think that it would be important to understand. Laszlo Toth Hungarian Academy of Sciences * Research Group on Artificial Intelligence * "Failure only begins e-mail: tothl@xxxxxxxx * when you stop trying" http://www.inf.u-szeged.hu/~tothl * ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= - Reinhart Frosch, CH-5200 Brugg. reinifrosch@xxxxxxxx . ------=_Part_1452_13351484.1285322745222 Content-Type: text/html;charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><head><style type=3D'text/css'> <!-- div.bwmail { background-color:#ffffff; font-family: Trebuchet MS,Arial,Helv= etica; font-size: 12px; margin:0; padding:0;} div.bwmail p { margin:0; padding:0; } div.bwmail table { font-family: Trebuchet MS,Arial,Helvetica; font-size: 12= px; } div.bwmail li { margin:0; padding:0; } --> </style> </head><body><div class=3D'bwmail'><P>Laszlo,</P> <P>I cannot answer your question about loud rock music. But I would like to= explain my point about classical tonal music in greater detail: The minor = third A4-C5 in just tuning has fundamental frequencies of 440 Hz (A4) = and 528 Hz (C5). The sixth harmonic of A4 and the fifth harmonic of C5 both= have a frequency of 2640 Hz and so do not generate beats. The Equal-Temper= ament minor third A4-C5, however, has frequencies of 440 Hz (A4) and 523.25= 1 Hz (C5). In this case, the mentioned harmonics have frequencies of 2640 H= z and 2616.256 and so generate about 24 beats per second, fairly disagreeab= le and thus making the ET third somewhat dissonant. These high harmonics ar= e fairly soft even if the total loudness is high.</P> <P>Reinhart.<BR><BR>----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Nachricht----<BR>Von: tothl@xxxxxxxx= U-SZEGED.HU<BR>Datum: 24.09.2010 09:28<BR>An: <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx&= gt;<BR>Betreff: Re: Hearing Loss &quot;False Positives&quot;<BR><BR= >On Thu, 23 Sep 2010, reinifrosch@xxxxxxxx wrote:<BR><BR>> Old guys wi= th undamaged hair cells have the advantage that they can fully<BR>> enjo= y classical tonal music with its change from dissonant to consonant<BR>>= chords and back. According to the Helmholtz consonance theory that<BR>>= change is due to the presence or absence of beats generated by pairs of<BR= >> partial tones of almost equal frequencies. These partials tend to be<= BR>> soft, and their frequencies tend to be high.<BR><BR>Do you know the= answer to the opposite: why is rock music more enjoyable<BR>loud? I think = that it would be important to understand.<BR><BR> &n= bsp; Laszlo Toth<BR>&= nbsp; Hungarian Academy of Sciences&nbs= p; *<BR> Research Group on = Artificial Intelligence * "Failure only begins<BR>&= nbsp; e-mail: tothl@xxxxxxxx &nbs= p; * when you s= top trying"<BR> http://www.inf.u-szeged.hu/~tothl&n= bsp; *<BR>-----------------------------= -----------------------------------------------</P> <P>Reinhart Frosch,<BR>CH-5200 Brugg.<BR><A href=3D"mailto:reinifrosch@xxxxxxxx= win.ch">reinifrosch@xxxxxxxx</A> .<BR><BR><BR><BR></P></div></body></html= > ------=_Part_1452_13351484.1285322745222--