Subject: Re: Topics for discussion From: Harvey Holmes <H.Holmes@xxxxxxxx> Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2010 00:10:09 +1100 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>--=====================_1889621374==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear List, Although many subscribers to the Auditory list=20 are interested in cochlear matters, there are=20 evidently some who are turned off by it. There=20 also seems to be a distinct danger of the current=20 very active (and passionate) discussion of the cochlea overwhelming this= list. The Cochlear Amplifier list exists for discussion=20 on cochlear processes. By now any member of the=20 Auditory list who has been following=20 cochlea-related topics on this list it in recent=20 weeks should know of the existence of this other=20 list and can join it if they want to=20 (http://cochlearamplifier.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cochlear-ampli= fier). Harvey Holmes At 13:41 18/03/2010, Diana Deutsch wrote: >I agree - I've learned a lot about this very=20 >important topic over the last few days, and=20 >thank the contributors for their thoughtful,=20 >detailed and forthright postings. We can't=20 >expect to understand higher-level auditory=20 >processing completely if we turn deaf ears to what goes on at the= periphery. > >Diana Deutsch > > > >On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:55 PM, Margaret Mortz wrote: > >>I would like to second Etienne's request to=20 >>keep the cochlear amplifier discussion on the AUDITORY list. >> >>I receive the email responses separately rather=20 >>than as a long composite digest, so it is=20 >>easier to segregate topics As long as the=20 >>subject line contains the topic, I can easily=20 >>bypass topics that I am not interested in. . >> >>I find this thread to be very interesting. I=20 >>have a special interest in learning about how=20 >>the brain gives feedback to the cochlear active=20 >>listening process via OHC. Obviously, I need to=20 >>also learn about the cochlea's passive dynamics=20 >>itself. It seems to be far more complicated than I realized. >> >>Margaret Mortz >> >> >> >>On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 5:38 PM, Etienne=20 >>Gaudrain <<mailto:et.gaudrain@xxxxxxxx>et.gaudrain@xxxxxxxx> wrote: >>Dear Professor Bregman, dear list, >>I am very glad you pointed out that the=20 >>AUDITORY list is a place that reflects the=20 >>diversity of auditory research. I would like to=20 >>add that the interaction between researchers of=20 >>various backgrounds is essential in that field=20 >>of research, and the AUDITORY list certainly helps a lot in that regard. >>If each specialized group of interest wer=D0=EE e=20 >>to create their own list, how could transversal=20 >>communication take place? We would just end up=20 >>with a very scattered landscape of auditory=20 >>research, and one would have to spend hours on=20 >>the web to find and reconnect all the pieces. >>So, although I understand that some people=20 >>could be annoyed by the discussion, there is no=20 >>strong reason why cochlear-modellers in=20 >>particular should not be welcomed on the list.=20 >>It seems more obvious that there are strong=20 >>reasons why they should stay and share there=20 >>debate They are good guys, they contribute a=20 >>lot! Otherwise we can also politely ask the=20 >>people who wonder about "timbre" to wonder=20 >>elsewhere. Or what about those who ask=20 >>questions about sound cards... I mean who=20 >>cares? Worst than everything, those who request=20 >>papers... can't they just pay for it?! The=20 >>final blow: the improbable conference=20 >>announcements (even seen a call for a French=20 >>meeting for PhD students... which would=20 >>concern, what, 50 people? ever seen an ASA=20 >>meeting announced here?)... And probably the=20 >>people that are a tiny bit sarcastic should also be banned from the= list... >> >>In the real world you can't suppress the sound=20 >>of people arguing in the street by any other=20 >>mean than earplugs that will also suppress the=20 >>lovely music you were listening to. You may=20 >>have heard of this: the auditory scene analysis=20 >>problem, nicely formulated by a great guy in=20 >>Canada, can't remember his name. Well, on the=20 >>Internet, you can actually very easily filter=20 >>out just the electronic messages you don't want=20 >>as long as you can describe what they look like=20 >>(as already suggested by Keith Kluender and=20 >>others). This is a bit sad but, on the=20 >>Internet, the scene analysis problem has been=20 >>solved some time ago. For those of you who=20 >>don't know how, here is a quick tutorial for=20 >>Thunderbird:=20 >><http://csd.mta.ca/html_pages/thunderbird/Filters.htm>http://csd.mta.ca/ht= ml_pages/thunderbird/Filters.htm.=20 >>I'm sure similar tutorials can be found for=20 >>Outlook, or any modern email software your=20 >>using. Silent reader=D0=EE s of the list shouldn't=20 >>be deprived of an interesting debate (although=20 >>sometime a bit over-enthusiastic, but then,=20 >>normally, adults know that people are making a=20 >>bit a fool of themselves when they are rude in=20 >>public for dull reasons) because some less=20 >>silent readers do not like it. I wouldn't sign=20 >>a petition to close a TV channel because they=20 >>show too boring programs between 2 and 4 am... >>So please, mechanical cochlear modellers, do come back. >>-Etienne >> >> >> >>On 16/03/2010 22:34, Al Bregman wrote: >>Dear list, >>I would like to remind everyone that the AUDITORY list members come >>from a variety of disciplines including experimental psychology, >>linguistics (especially phonology), infant development, brain >>sciences, music and other sonic arts, audio technology, artificial >>intelligence, robotics, computer science, and speech and hearing >>science. For the last little while, the postings seem to have focused >>heavily on a rather technical and heated discussion of the mechanics >>of the cochlea. It is impressive to see the enthusiasm of researchers >>on this topic, but I hope that other people will not be discouraged >>from interrupting this discussion with questions, announcements, and >>messages on other topics. >>Perhaps it would be a good idea if, when any group wishes to have a >>prolonged discussion of a highly specialized topic, they form a >>discussion group of interested parties. It would then be of great >>interest for the list as a whole to be brought up to date on the >>thoughts, and maybe conclusions, of this specialized group if any of >>its members were willing to take the trouble to write up summaries >>from time to time. >>Best to all, >>Al >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---<=D0=EE=20 >>br> Albert S. Bregman, Emeritus Professor >>Psychology Department, McGill University >>1205 Docteur Penfield Avenue >>Montreal, QC, Canada H3A 1B1. >>Office: Phone: (514) 398-6103, Fax: (514) 398-4896 >><http://webpages.mcgill.ca/staff/Group2/abregm1/web/>http://webpages.mcgil= l.ca/staff/Group2/abregm1/web/=20 >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---=20 >> >> >> >> >>-- >>Etienne Gaudrain, PhD >>MRC Cognition and Brain Sciences Unit >>15 Chaucer Road >>Cambridge, CB2 7EF >>UK >>Phone: +44 1223 273 664 >>Fax (unit): +44 1223 359 062 --=====================_1889621374==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <body> <font size=3D3>Dear List,<br><br> Although many subscribers to the Auditory list are interested in cochlear matters, there are evidently some who are turned off by it. There also seems to be a distinct danger of the current very active (and passionate) discussion of the cochlea overwhelming this list.<br><br> The Cochlear Amplifier list exists for discussion on cochlear processes. By now any member of the Auditory list who has been following cochlea-related topics on this list it in recent weeks should know of the existence of this other list and can join it if they want to (<a= href=3D"http://cochlearamplifier.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cochle= ar-amplifier" eudora=3D"autourl"> http://cochlearamplifier.dyndns.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cochlear-amplif= ier</a> ).<br><br> <x-tab> </x-tab>Harvey Holmes<br><br> At 13:41 18/03/2010, Diana Deutsch wrote:<br><br> <blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">I agree - I've learned a lot about this very important topic over the last few days, and thank the contributors for their thoughtful, detailed and forthright postings. We can't expect to understand higher-level auditory processing completely if we turn deaf ears to what goes on at the periphery. <br><br> Diana Deutsch<br><br> <br><br> On Mar 17, 2010, at 6:55 PM, Margaret Mortz wrote:<br><br> <blockquote type=3Dcite class=3Dcite cite=3D"">I would like to second Etienn= e's request to keep the cochlear amplifier discussion on the AUDITORY list. <br><br> I receive the email responses separately rather than as a long composite digest, so it is easier to segregate topics As long as the subject line contains the topic, I can easily bypass topics that I am not interested in. .<br><br> I find this thread to be very interesting. I have a special interest in learning about how the brain gives feedback to the cochlear active listening process via OHC. Obviously, I need to also learn about the cochlea's passive dynamics itself. It seems to be far more complicated than I realized. <br><br> Margaret Mortz<br><br> <br><br> On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 5:38 PM, Etienne Gaudrain <<a href=3D"mailto:et.gaudrain@xxxxxxxx">et.gaudrain@xxxxxxxx</a>> wrote: <dl> <dd>Dear Professor Bregman, dear list,<br> <dd>I am very glad you pointed out that the AUDITORY list is a place that reflects the diversity of auditory research. I would like to add that the interaction between researchers of various backgrounds is essential in that field of research, and the AUDITORY list certainly helps a lot in that regard.<br> <dd>If each specialized group of interest wer=D0=EE e to create their own list, how could transversal communication take place? We would just end up with a very scattered landscape of auditory research, and one would have to spend hours on the web to find and reconnect all the pieces.<br> <dd>So, although I understand that some people could be annoyed by the discussion, there is no strong reason why cochlear-modellers in particular should not be welcomed on the list. It seems more obvious that there are strong reasons why they should stay and share there debate They are good guys, they contribute a lot! Otherwise we can also politely ask the people who wonder about "timbre" to wonder elsewhere. Or what about those who ask questions about sound cards... I mean who cares? Worst than everything, those who request papers... can't they just pay for it?! The final blow: the improbable conference announcements (even seen a call for a French meeting for PhD students... which would concern, what, 50 people? ever seen an ASA meeting announced here?)... And probably the people that are a tiny bit sarcastic should also be banned from the list...<br><br> <dd>In the real world you can't suppress the sound of people arguing in the street by any other mean than earplugs that will also suppress the lovely music you were listening to. You may have heard of this: the auditory scene analysis problem, nicely formulated by a great guy in Canada, can't remember his name. Well, on the Internet, you can actually very easily filter out just the electronic messages you don't want as long as you can describe what they look like (as already suggested by Keith Kluender and others). This is a bit sad but, on the Internet, the scene analysis problem has been solved some time ago. For those of you who don't know how, here is a quick tutorial for Thunderbird: <a href=3D"http://csd.mta.ca/html_pages/thunderbird/Filters.htm"> http://csd.mta.ca/html_pages/thunderbird/Filters.htm</a>. I'm sure similar tutorials can be found for Outlook, or any modern email software your using. Silent reader=D0=EE s of the list shouldn't be deprived of an interesting debate (although sometime a bit over-enthusiastic, but then, normally, adults know that people are making a bit a fool of themselves when they are rude in public for dull reasons) because some less silent readers do not like it. I wouldn't sign a petition to close a TV channel because they show too boring programs between 2 and 4 am...<br> <dd>So please, mechanical cochlear modellers, do come back.<br> <dd>-Etienne<br> <br> <br> <br> <dd>On 16/03/2010 22:34, Al Bregman wrote: <dl> <dd>Dear list,<br> <dd>I would like to remind everyone that the AUDITORY list members come <dd>from a variety of disciplines including experimental psychology, <dd>linguistics (especially phonology), infant development, brain <dd>sciences, music and other sonic arts, audio technology, artificial <dd>intelligence, robotics, computer science, and speech and hearing <dd>science. For the last little while, the postings seem to have focused <dd>heavily on a rather technical and heated discussion of the mechanics <dd>of the cochlea. It is impressive to see the enthusiasm of researchers <dd>on this topic, but I hope that other people will not be discouraged <dd>from interrupting this discussion with questions, announcements, and <dd>messages on other topics.<br> <dd>Perhaps it would be a good idea if, when any group wishes to have a <dd>prolonged discussion of a highly specialized topic, they form a <dd>discussion group of interested parties. It would then be of great <dd>interest for the list as a whole to be brought up to date on the <dd>thoughts, and maybe conclusions, of this specialized group if any of <dd>its members were willing to take the trouble to write up summaries <dd>from time to time.<br> <dd>Best to all,<br> <dd>Al<br> <dd> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= -<=D0=EE br> Albert S. Bregman, Emeritus Professor <dd>Psychology Department, McGill University <dd>1205 Docteur Penfield Avenue <dd>Montreal, QC, Canada H3A 1B1. <dd>Office: Phone: (514) 398-6103, Fax: (514) 398-4896 <dd><a href=3D"http://webpages.mcgill.ca/staff/Group2/abregm1/web/"> http://webpages.mcgill.ca/staff/Group2/abregm1/web/</a> <dd> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------= - <dd> <br> <br><br> </font> </dl> <dd><font size=3D3 color=3D"#888888">--=20 <dd>Etienne Gaudrain, PhD <dd>MRC Cognition and Brain Sciences Unit <dd>15 Chaucer Road <dd>Cambridge, CB2 7EF <dd>UK <dd>Phone: +44 1223 273 664 <dd>Fax (unit): +44 1223 359 062</font><font size=3D3></font> </dl></blockquote></blockquote></body> </html> --=====================_1889621374==.ALT--