Subject: Re: need recommendation on PC sound card From: Neil Waterman <neil.waterman@xxxxxxxx> Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:30:05 -0500 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>--Apple-Mail-24-782597000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; delsp=yes; format=flowed One very real problem is that the vast majority of internal cards do =20 not support balanced microphone inputs for "real" microphones" and =20 have rather pathetic output amps. Now that may not be a problem if =20 you are driving "consumer grade" PC speakers or similar, but anything =20= more serious, can reveal problems. External devices (and I'd agree =20 Firewire devices are also good - I've never had a problem with USB =20 2.0 units either), usually have much better analog stages. As for immunity to PC noise I'm sorry I disagree. Try running an =20 internal sound card and making a 24-bit recording that really uses =20 the full 24-bit range... good luck. I guess it depends what you are trying to do really. Good luck, Neil On Feb 22, 2010, at 10:10 AM, Pawe=C5=82 Ku=C5=9Bmierek wrote: > Hi Rob, > > for most uses any sound card from the semi-pro market should be =20 > sufficient. Look for manufacturers such as M-Audio, E-mu, Lexicon, =20 > PreSonus, MOTU, Tascam), or simply go to an online store such as =20 > http://www.sweetwater.com, http://www.musiciansfriend.com, http://=20 > www.zzounds.com/, and look for recording interfaces. Any of these =20 > should support 44.1-48 kHz at 16-bit with stereo line level input =20 > and output, but if you need more inputs or outputs, another kind of =20= > output (mic preamp, instrument level, headphone), analog volume =20 > controls, higher sampling rates or bit depths, then there will =20 > still a lot of options, but read the specs. > > As for external vs. internal - these days decent internal cards are =20= > usually very immune to PC noise it I would not say it's an issue. =20 > On the other hand, USB cards in some (rare) configurations may have =20= > a little trouble running smoothly, Firewire cards are reported to =20 > be more reliable. I took me some time to get my M-Audio FastTrack =20 > Pro (a USB card) to run without glitches, whereas none of M-Audio =20 > PCI interfaces gave me any problems. On the other hand, external =20 > interfaces' audio connections are usually easier to connect - the =20 > box in your desk and you don't have to work behind your computer =20 > (some PCI cards have external breakout boxes though). Fore some =20 > people, an advantage of USB cards is that they tend to have manual =20 > analog volume controls and mic preamps. > > Hope that helps, > > Pawe=C5=82 > On 22 February 2010 09:07, Neil Waterman <neil.waterman@xxxxxxxx=20 > usa.com> wrote: > Hi Rob, > > Is there a particular reason you need an INTERNAL card? Generally =20 > the internal environment of a PC is not conducive to high quality =20 > sound (far too many sources of electric and magnetic fields for the =20= > analog audio stages to remain clean). A much better option would be =20= > an external USB soundcard. Since these units keep the analog audio =20 > outside of the PC chassis things generally go rather better. =20 > Whether there are any external units that provide SDK support is =20 > beyond my knowledge though. > > FWIW I am current using a PreSonus Audiobox USB and like it a lot. > > Regards, Neil > > > On Feb 21, 2010, at 7:12 PM, G. Robert Arrabito wrote: > >> Dear listers, >> >> I did a quick search on the last two years of the auditory mailing =20= >> list archives on pc sound card recommendations and didn't find =20 >> much on the topic so hence my post to the list. I am looking for =20 >> recommendations for an internal PC high quality sound card that =20 >> will be used to output auditory stimuli in my experiments. Would =20 >> also be nice if there is an accompanying software development kit. =20= >> Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks. >> >> >> Rob >> >> -- >> G. Robert Arrabito, M.Sc. >> Defence Scientist | Scientifique de la d=C3=A9fense >> Advanced Interface Group | Groupe des interfaces avanc=C3=A9es >> Human Systems Integration | Section de l'int=C3=A9gration humain-=20 >> syst=C3=A8mes >> Defence R&D Canada Toronto | R&D pour la D=C3=A9fense Canada Toronto >> 1133 Sheppard Ave West , PO Box 2000 | 1133 Ave Sheppard Ouest, =20 >> C.P. 2000 >> Toronto, ON M3M 3B9 Canada >> >> Robert.Arrabito@xxxxxxxx >> Telephone | T=C3=A9l=C3=A9phone (416) 635-2033 >> Facsimile | T=C3=A9l=C3=A9copieur (416) 635-2013 >> >> Government of Canada | Gouvernement du Canada >> >> www.drdc-rddc.gc.ca >> > > --Apple-Mail-24-782597000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 <html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; = -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div>One very real problem is = that the vast majority of internal cards do not support balanced = microphone inputs for "real" microphones" and have rather pathetic = output amps. Now that may not be a problem if you are driving "consumer = grade" PC speakers or similar, but anything more serious, can reveal = problems. External devices (and I'd agree Firewire devices are also good = - I've never had a problem with USB 2.0 units either), usually have much = better analog stages.</div><div><br></div><div>As for immunity to PC = noise I'm sorry I disagree. Try running an internal sound card and = making a 24-bit recording that really uses the full 24-bit range... good = luck.</div><div><br></div><div>I guess it depends what you are trying to = do really. </div><div><br></div><div>Good luck, = Neil</div><div><br></div><br><div><div>On Feb 22, 2010, at 10:10 AM, = Pawe=C5=82 Ku=C5=9Bmierek wrote:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>Hi = Rob,</div> <div> </div> <div>for most uses any sound card from the = semi-pro market should be sufficient. Look for manufacturers such = as M-Audio, E-mu, Lexicon, PreSonus, MOTU, Tascam), or simply go to an = online store such as <a href=3D"http://www.sweetwater.com/" = target=3D"_blank">http://www.sweetwater.com</a>, <a = href=3D"http://www.musiciansfriend.com/" = target=3D"_blank">http://www.musiciansfriend.com</a>, <a = href=3D"http://www.zzounds.com/" = target=3D"_blank">http://www.zzounds.com/</a>, and look for recording = interfaces. Any of these should support 44.1-48 kHz at 16-bit with = stereo line level input and output, but if you need more inputs or = outputs, another kind of output (mic preamp, instrument level, = headphone), analog volume controls, higher sampling rates or bit depths, = then there will still a lot of options, but read the specs.</div> = <div> </div> <div>As for external vs. internal - these days decent = internal cards are usually very immune to PC noise it I would not = say it's an issue. On the other hand, USB cards in some (rare) = configurations may have a little trouble running smoothly, Firewire = cards are reported to be more reliable. I took me some time to get my = M-Audio FastTrack Pro (a USB card) to run without glitches, whereas none = of M-Audio PCI interfaces gave me any problems. On the other hand, = external interfaces' audio connections are usually easier to connect - = the box in your desk and you don't have to work behind your computer = (some PCI cards have external breakout boxes though). Fore some = people, an advantage of USB cards is that they tend to have manual = analog volume controls and mic preamps.<br> </div> <div> </div> = <div>Hope that helps,</div> <div> </div> <div>Pawe=C5=82<br></div> = <div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 22 February 2010 09:07, Neil Waterman = <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:neil.waterman@xxxxxxxx" = target=3D"_blank">neil.waterman@xxxxxxxx</a>></span> wrote:<br> = <blockquote style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px = 0.8ex; PADDING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3D"gmail_quote"> <div style=3D"WORD-WRAP: = break-word"> <div><span style=3D"TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; = BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; = LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px">Hi = Rob,</span></div> <div><br></div> <div><span style=3D"TEXT-TRANSFORM: = none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; = WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); = WORD-SPACING: 0px">Is there a particular reason you need an INTERNAL = card? Generally the internal environment of a PC is not conducive to = high quality sound (far too many sources of electric and magnetic fields = for the analog audio stages to remain clean). A much better option would = be an external USB soundcard. Since these units keep the analog audio = outside of the PC chassis things generally go rather better. Whether = there are any external units that provide SDK support is beyond my = knowledge though.</span></div> <div><br></div> <div><span = style=3D"TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: = separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; LETTER-SPACING: = normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px">FWIW I am current using a = PreSonus Audiobox USB and like it a lot.</span></div> <div><br></div> = <div><span style=3D"TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; = BORDER-COLLAPSE: separate; FONT: 12px Helvetica; WHITE-SPACE: normal; = LETTER-SPACING: normal; COLOR: rgb(0,0,0); WORD-SPACING: 0px">Regards, = Neil </span></div> <div> <div></div> <div> <div><br></div><br> = <div> <div>On Feb 21, 2010, at 7:12 PM, G. Robert Arrabito = wrote:</div><br> <blockquote type=3D"cite"> <div style=3D"MARGIN: = 0px">Dear listers,</div> <div style=3D"MARGIN: 0px; MIN-HEIGHT: = 14px"><br></div> <div style=3D"MARGIN: 0px">I did a quick search on the = last two years of the auditory mailing list archives<span> = </span>on pc sound<span> </span>card recommendations and didn't = find much on the topic so hence<span> </span>my post to the list. = I am looking for recommendations for an internal PC high quality sound = card that will be used to output auditory stimuli in my experiments. = Would also be nice if there is an accompanying software development kit. = Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks.</div> <div = style=3D"MARGIN: 0px; MIN-HEIGHT: 14px"><br></div> <div style=3D"MARGIN: = 0px; MIN-HEIGHT: 14px"><br></div> <div style=3D"MARGIN: 0px">Rob</div> = <div style=3D"MARGIN: 0px; MIN-HEIGHT: 14px"><br></div> <div = style=3D"MARGIN: 0px">--</div> <div style=3D"MARGIN: 0px">G. Robert = Arrabito, M.Sc.</div> <div style=3D"MARGIN: 0px">Defence Scientist | = Scientifique de la d=C3=A9fense</div> <div style=3D"MARGIN: = 0px">Advanced Interface Group | Groupe des interfaces avanc=C3=A9es</div> = <div style=3D"MARGIN: 0px">Human Systems Integration | Section de = l'int=C3=A9gration humain-syst=C3=A8mes</div> <div style=3D"MARGIN: = 0px">Defence R&D Canada Toronto | R&D pour la D=C3=A9fense = Canada Toronto</div> <div style=3D"MARGIN: 0px">1133 Sheppard Ave West , = PO Box 2000 | 1133 Ave Sheppard Ouest, C.P. 2000</div> <div = style=3D"MARGIN: 0px">Toronto, ON M3M 3B9 Canada</div> <div = style=3D"MARGIN: 0px; MIN-HEIGHT: 14px"><br></div> <div style=3D"MARGIN: = 0px"><a href=3D"mailto:Robert.Arrabito@xxxxxxxx" = target=3D"_blank">Robert.Arrabito@xxxxxxxx</a></div> <div = style=3D"MARGIN: 0px">Telephone | T=C3=A9l=C3=A9phone (416) = 635-2033</div> <div style=3D"MARGIN: 0px">Facsimile | T=C3=A9l=C3=A9copieu= r (416) 635-2013</div> <div style=3D"MARGIN: 0px; MIN-HEIGHT: = 14px"><br></div> <div style=3D"MARGIN: 0px">Government of Canada | = Gouvernement du Canada</div> <div style=3D"MARGIN: 0px; MIN-HEIGHT: = 14px"><br></div> <div style=3D"MARGIN: 0px"><a = href=3D"http://www.drdc-rddc.gc.ca/" = target=3D"_blank">www.drdc-rddc.gc.ca</a></div> <div style=3D"MARGIN: = 0px; MIN-HEIGHT: = 14px"><br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></blockquote></di= v><br></blockquote></div><br></body></html>= --Apple-Mail-24-782597000--