Subject: Talking piano: Sparky debate on the auditory list From: Bob Carlyon <bob.carlyon@xxxxxxxx> Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 16:11:37 +0100 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050001060505030304010806 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Is it just me who was reminded of Sparky's Magic Piano? Check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3etiNLAFi0 and start the video after about 3 mins 15 seconds.... bob PS. Before anyone asks, no I was /not/ around in the 1940s when this came out first.... Markus Noisternig wrote: > Dear All, > > Peter Ablinger is a well known Austrian composer who is working on the > spectral aspects of music since a long time. I had many chances > listening to this computer-controlled piano live and I can fully > assure you the veracity of the demonstration. > > The automatic piano has been developed by Winfried Ritsch, associate > professor at the Institute of Electronic Music and Acoustics in Graz > Austria; the analysis software was mainly written by Thomas Musil. > Both are very active members in the computer music and pure data > community. > >> Can I suggest, from looking at the machine, that it will be able to >> make sounds a human piano-player cannot: it appears to be able to hit >> all 88 >> notes simultaneously if required, each with a different strength > > That's completely true and the only limitation in speed so far are the > mechanics of the piano. > >> (i) this is a great many more notes than a pair of human hands can >> play at once (limited to about 12 or altogether), and equally >> importantly) it can >> play notes over the whole range of the piano simultaneously, allowing >> a much richer set of sounds >> >> (ii) The machine can also adjust the precise strength with which it >> hits notes individually >> >> As a result, it can make sounds that a human pianist really cannot make. > > I may direct your attention to a musical study for a talking piano, > Peter has realized at the IEM - "Voices and Piano" ! Peter has > spectrally analyzed short speeches from Guillaume Apollinaire to Orson > Wells as basis of short pieces for piano solo and playback. Nicolas > Hodges performed the premiere in Graz. We did some recordings of the > premiere but I'm not sure if they are released yet? Further > information can be found at: http://ablinger.mur.at/voices_and_piano.html > > Even a human pianist cannot compete with an automatic piano in terms > of speed and range of notes I was deeply impressed by the acoustic > outcome of Nicholas' play. > > "The Audience", the 7th act of his opera is a composition for two > ensembles and two computer-controlled pianos and was premiered at the > Steirischer Herbst festival in 2005. He refers to the term "Klangrede" > for reproducing city noises, speech, and instrumental sounds. Further > informations and sound examples can be found at: > http://ablinger.mur.at/docu15engl_act7.html > > With best wishes, > > Markus > > On 10 oct. 09, at 13:37, Aki Pasoulas wrote: > >> From: Peter Meijer <feedback@xxxxxxxx> >> To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx >> Sent: Saturday, 10 October, 2009 9:11:19 >> Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Talking piano >> ... >> >> And pianists: don't despair, I can imagine that a further >> simplification to >> 10-finger piano speech might also work well enough, by analogy to the >> 3-tone >> sinewave speech results... :-) >> >> .... >> >> >> Or use 2 pianos and 8 hands; many symphonic works of the 19th C. were >> transcribed for 8 hands. >> >> Aki >> >> ----------------------------------- >> http://aki-pasoulas.co.uk -- Dr. Bob Carlyon MRC Cognition & Brain Sciences Unit 15 Chaucer Rd Cambridge CB2 7EF England Tel: +44 1223 355294 Fax: +44 1223 359062 www.mrc-cbu.cam.ac.uk/hearing --------------050001060505030304010806 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> <html> <head> <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type"> </head> <body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> Is it just me who was reminded of Sparky's Magic Piano?<br> <br> Check out <br> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3etiNLAFi0">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3etiNLAFi0</a><br> and start the video after about 3 mins 15 seconds....<br> <br> bob<br> <br> PS. Before anyone asks, no I was <i>not</i> around in the 1940s when this came out first....<br> <br> Markus Noisternig wrote: <blockquote cite="mid:20091010144527.DC2E1688D@xxxxxxxx" type="cite">Dear All, <br> <br> Peter Ablinger is a well known Austrian composer who is working on the spectral aspects of music since a long time. I had many chances listening to this computer-controlled piano live and I can fully assure you the veracity of the demonstration. <br> <br> The automatic piano has been developed by Winfried Ritsch, associate professor at the Institute of Electronic Music and Acoustics in Graz Austria; the analysis software was mainly written by Thomas Musil. Both are very active members in the computer music and pure data community. <br> <br> <blockquote type="cite">Can I suggest, from looking at the machine, that it will be able to make sounds a human piano-player cannot: it appears to be able to hit all 88 <br> notes simultaneously if required, each with a different strength <br> </blockquote> <br> That's completely true and the only limitation in speed so far are the mechanics of the piano. <br> <br> <blockquote type="cite">(i) this is a great many more notes than a pair of human hands can play at once (limited to about 12 or altogether), and equally importantly) it can <br> play notes over the whole range of the piano simultaneously, allowing a much richer set of sounds <br> <br> (ii) The machine can also adjust the precise strength with which it hits notes individually <br> <br> As a result, it can make sounds that a human pianist really cannot make. <br> </blockquote> <br> I may direct your attention to a musical study for a talking piano, Peter has realized at the IEM - "Voices and Piano" ! Peter has spectrally analyzed short speeches from Guillaume Apollinaire to Orson Wells as basis of short pieces for piano solo and playback. Nicolas Hodges performed the premiere in Graz. We did some recordings of the premiere but I'm not sure if they are released yet? Further information can be found at: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://ablinger.mur.at/voices_and_piano.html">http://ablinger.mur.at/voices_and_piano.html</a> <br> <br> Even a human pianist cannot compete with an automatic piano in terms of speed and range of notes I was deeply impressed by the acoustic outcome of Nicholas' play. <br> <br> "The Audience", the 7th act of his opera is a composition for two ensembles and two computer-controlled pianos and was premiered at the Steirischer Herbst festival in 2005. He refers to the term "Klangrede" for reproducing city noises, speech, and instrumental sounds. Further informations and sound examples can be found at: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://ablinger.mur.at/docu15engl_act7.html">http://ablinger.mur.at/docu15engl_act7.html</a> <br> <br> With best wishes, <br> <br> Markus <br> <br> On 10 oct. 09, at 13:37, Aki Pasoulas wrote: <br> <br> <blockquote type="cite">From: Peter Meijer <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:feedback@xxxxxxxx"><feedback@xxxxxxxx></a> <br> To: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx">AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx</a> <br> Sent: Saturday, 10 October, 2009 9:11:19 <br> Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] Talking piano <br> ... <br> <br> And pianists: don't despair, I can imagine that a further simplification to <br> 10-finger piano speech might also work well enough, by analogy to the 3-tone <br> sinewave speech results... :-) <br> <br> .... <br> <br> <br> Or use 2 pianos and 8 hands; many symphonic works of the 19th C. were transcribed for 8 hands. <br> <br> Aki <br> <br> ----------------------------------- <br> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://aki-pasoulas.co.uk">http://aki-pasoulas.co.uk</a> <br> </blockquote> </blockquote> <br> <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- Dr. Bob Carlyon MRC Cognition & Brain Sciences Unit 15 Chaucer Rd Cambridge CB2 7EF England Tel: +44 1223 355294 Fax: +44 1223 359062 <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.mrc-cbu.cam.ac.uk/hearing">www.mrc-cbu.cam.ac.uk/hearing</a> </pre> </body> </html> --------------050001060505030304010806--