Subject: Re: SOAEs and tinnitus From: Pierre Divenyi <pdivenyi@xxxxxxxx> Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 22:32:49 +0200 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3337799571_4462796 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I stopped doing OAE research in the late 80=B9s, but the accepted statistics then was that the 2x2 matrix of Tinnitus-y-or-n vs. SOAO-y-or-n had 4 almos= t equal cells. Has this statistic changed indicating now a significant correlation? -Pierre On 10/7/09 7:11 PM, "Brian Gygi" <bgygi@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > =20 > The problem is that there are also people (e.g., myself) who have tinnitu= s but > exhibit no SOAEs. Further, SOAE's don't really "sound" like tinnitus - t= here > are several different "sounds" of tinnitus, suchas ringing, "crickets" an= d > very rarely a low frequency hum. I have crickets myself. This is the > problem, as perviously stated, with grouping all disorders that kind of b= ehave > like tinnitus under one heading, when they might have several different > etiologies. >=20 > Brian=20 >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Andrew Bell [mailto:andrew.bell@xxxxxxxx >> Sent: Wednesday, October 7, 2009 12:43 AM >> To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx >> Subject: Re: Technique can pinpoint tinnitus >>=20 >> Matt and list: Thanks for pointer to Ceranic et al (1998), a paper which >> gives clear evidence that spontaneous otoacoustic emissions (SOAEs) and >> tinnitus are closely related. If SOAEs sound like tinnitus and behave li= ke >> tinnitus, isn't it likely that they are (in some respect) tinnitus? If w= e are >> aiming to pinpoint tinnitus, then SOAEs offer the most direct tool, and >> Ceranic et al. support this idea. Their Table 5 shows that patients with= head >> injury and tinnitus displayed 4.4 SOAEs per ear, compared to 1.7 with no= rmals >> and 0.25 with those having head injury without tinnitus. So did the head >> injury damage the cochlea and generate a tinnitus sensation (via afferen= t >> pathways), or did the injury damage the brain, which responded by sendin= g a >> signal to the cochlea (via efferent pathways)? As you say, that question= is >> still very much open, but it would definitely repay some attention. Andr= ew. >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Andrew Bell Research School of Bi= ology >> (RSB) The Australian National University Canberra, ACT 0200, Australia T= : +61 >> 2 6125 5145 F: +61 2 6125 3808 andrew.bell@xxxxxxxx >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Further, tinnitus can also be >> induced by head injury [6]. In > this case, it is possible that the inne= r ear >> is damaged and > this causes a peripheral type of tinnitus, which again = is a >> > cochlear amplifier dysfunction. Until we can successfully > trace this >> cause and develop methods such as cellular > regeneration possibly using= stem >> cells - we can tinker and > experiment using all sorts of procedures to = quash >> the > problem, but they will never be as sophisticated as actually > >> repairing the biology. > > > > [6] @xxxxxxxx{ceranic:1998, > author =3D >> {Ceranic, B.J. and Prasher, D.K. and Raglan, E. > and Luxon, L.M.}, > = title >> =3D {{Tinnitus after head injury: evidence from > otoacoustic emissions}},= > >> journal =3D {Journal of Neurology, Neurosurgery \& Psychiatry}, > year =3D >> {1998}, > volume =3D {65}, > pages =3D {523--529}, > number =3D {4}, > >> publisher =3D {BMJ} > } > >=20 --B_3337799571_4462796 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Re: SOAEs and tinnitus</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:12.0px'>I sto= pped doing OAE research in the late 80’s, but the accepted statistics = then was that the 2x2 matrix of Tinnitus-y-or-n vs. SOAO-y-or-n had 4 almost= equal cells. Has this statistic changed indicating now a significant correl= ation?<BR> <BR> -Pierre<BR> <BR> <BR> On 10/7/09 7:11 PM, "Brian Gygi" <bgygi@xxxxxxxx> wrote:<B= R> <BR> </SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial"><SPAN STYL= E=3D'font-size:12.0px'> <BR> The problem is that there are also people (e.g., myself) who have tinnitus = but exhibit no SOAEs. Further, SOAE's don't really "sound" l= ike tinnitus - there are several different "sounds" of tinnitus, s= uchas ringing, "crickets" and very rarely a low frequency hum. &nb= sp;I have crickets myself. This is the problem, as perviously stated, = with grouping all disorders that kind of behave like tinnitus under one head= ing, when they might have several different etiologies.<BR> <BR> Brian <BR> <BR> </SPAN></FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:12.0px'><FONT FACE=3D"Tahoma= ">-----Original Message-----<BR> <B>From:</B> Andrew Bell [<a href=3D"mailto:andrew.bell@xxxxxxxx">mailto:a= ndrew.bell@xxxxxxxx</a><BR> <B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, October 7, 2009 12:43 AM<BR> <B>To:</B> AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx<BR> <B>Subject:</B> Re: Technique can pinpoint tinnitus<BR> <BR> </FONT><FONT FACE=3D"Verdana, Helvetica, Arial">Matt and list: Thanks for poi= nter to Ceranic et al (1998), a paper which gives clear evidence that sponta= neous otoacoustic emissions (SOAEs) and tinnitus are closely related. If SOA= Es sound like tinnitus and behave like tinnitus, isn't it likely that they a= re (in some respect) tinnitus? If we are aiming to pinpoint tinnitus, then S= OAEs offer the most direct tool, and Ceranic et al. support this idea. Their= Table 5 shows that patients with head injury and tinnitus displayed 4.4 SOA= Es per ear, compared to 1.7 with normals and 0.25 with those having head inj= ury without tinnitus. So did the head injury damage the cochlea and generate= a tinnitus sensation (via afferent pathways), or did the injury damage the = brain, which responded by sending a signal to the cochlea (via efferent path= ways)? As you say, that question is still very much open, but it would defin= itely repay some attention. Andrew. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A= ndrew Bell Research School of Biology (RSB) The Australian National Universi= ty Canberra, ACT 0200, Australia T: +61 2 6125 5145 F: +61 2 6125 3808 andre= w.bell@xxxxxxxx ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > Further, = tinnitus can also be induced by head injury [6]. In > this case, it is po= ssible that the inner ear is damaged and > this causes a peripheral type = of tinnitus, which again is a > cochlear amplifier dysfunction. Until we = can successfully > trace this cause and develop methods such as cellular = > regeneration possibly using stem cells - we can tinker and > experim= ent using all sorts of procedures to quash the > problem, but they will n= ever be as sophisticated as actually > repairing the biology. > > &= gt; > [6] @xxxxxxxx{ceranic:1998, > author =3D {Ceranic, B.J.= and Prasher, D.K. and Raglan, E. > and Luxon, L.M.}, > ti= tle =3D {{Tinnitus after head injury: evidence from > otoacoustic emissions= }}, > journal =3D {Journal of Neurology, Neurosurgery \& Ps= ychiatry}, > year =3D {1998}, > volume =3D {65}, &= gt; pages =3D {523--529}, > number =3D {4}, > &nbs= p; publisher =3D {BMJ} > } > <BR> </FONT></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:12.0px'><FONT FACE=3D"Verda= na, Helvetica, Arial"><BR> </FONT></SPAN></BLOCKQUOTE><SPAN STYLE=3D'font-size:12.0px'><FONT FACE=3D"Verda= na, Helvetica, Arial"><BR> </FONT></SPAN> </BODY> </HTML> --B_3337799571_4462796--