Subject: On "learned" A/P, lattice / grid From: Kevin Austin <kevin.austin@xxxxxxxx> Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 10:53:21 -0400 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>Thank you. The article is very interesting and informative. http://www.eric.ed.gov:80/ERICDocs/data/ericdocs2sql/content_storage_01/0000019b/80/35/95/75.pdf From Parncutt & Levitin, Absolute Pitch: (abstracted) >> They, AP possessors, may work out integrated qualities (intervals >> and chords) by reconstructing them from the notes (note names), >> rather than perceiving an 'integrated' sonority (Miyazaki, 1992, >> 1993). There is the proposition that "melody" is not heard, but >> rather a string of pitches passing by. http://books.google.com/books?id=IhFOe_bBb1UC&pg=PA39&lpg=PA39&dq=%22I+don't+hear+melodies,+I+hear+pitch+names+passing+by.%22&source=bl&ots=4qII4vElNL&sig=6ZjUS-5KDXtyq_8PzuBX90p5EGQ&hl=en&ei=a36eSp6kLoq7lAe9oNSbDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2#v =onepage&q=%22I%20don't%20hear%20melodies%2C%20I%20hear%20pitch%20names %20passing%20by.%22&f=false An equivalent to this for non-AP people would be to read a chinese text, with a knowledge of how chinese characters are constructed (radicals and combinations), but having no sense of what the characters mean, or how they relate. This seems to correspond to the statement: > Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 17:20:33 +0200 > From: Leon van Noorden <leonvannoorden@xxxxxxxx> > Subject: Re: Linearity as pitch perception: was Perception as memory > > It was true in the time that I had to make music dictations, very > long ago, that I had to reconstruct the interval or chord from the > notes. It does not mean that you could not say what kind of chord it > was from the sound, such a major or minor. As a non-AP listener, I hear (only) sets of relationships, and I have developed large numbers of 'musical hierarchies' to categorize these relationships. My hearing is (more or less) pattern-based, what I refer to as 'process-oriented listening'. I note repetition, variation, transformation, lattice / pattern matching etc. In the article cited, P T Brady says that he 'taught himself' AP -- an idea that many have difficulty with. Count me in this group. As with Eliot Handelman, my alternate interpretation is that the AP existed, but some aspects of it had been extinguished for some reason, and he had re-discovered it with a one year re-training. The visual model I use for this distinction is that used in certain kinds of cross-country car racing where the instructions read: Drive to the second traffic light, turn left After five stop signs, turn right One block after the school on your left, turn right Rather than: Drive to Maple St, turn left' At Walnut Street, turn right After Oak Street School, turn right on Oak Street The first of these (similar to how I hear music), I build a kind of chain, or lattice. It floats freely (usually about a P4 below the absolute pitch level). The lattice is hierarchical, and contains multiple referents. In tonal music, the scale degree ^3 will largely identify a <t> tonic function, and ^7 will identify a <d> dominant. ^4 or ^#4 I hear largely as <dp>, dominant preparation. Knowing (or guessing) the key of the piece, I will visualize a score, and through reverse-engineering, would write out the pitches I think I hear. This appears to be the opposite method used by possessors of AP. FWIW, my understanding of Chomsky's transformational linguistics is built upon the idea of relationships and hierarchies; language as a form of variation and hierarchies. In (many? most?) Indo-european languages, there are clusters of word types (verbs, gerunds, adverbs,nouns etc), often based around some kind of root that undergoes transformations: to think, thinking, thoughtfully, thought ...), and while the 'absolute' form [well-formed] is learned (with the exceptions), the mind is able to read that: Ta-daye eye had gotten inta ma kar n wint duntoun The translation of this, or machine reading of this, would likely be more difficult. Jazz, if it is to be more than a stream of notes going by, can be heard as song-form variation, and enjoyed for the inventiveness of the musician. This may also be the case in other 'language delimited' improvisations -- I think of north Indian and Persian particularly, both of which have extensive ancient theories of music. Many years ago I worked on creating a database with the analysis of Bach Chorales, and very quickly understood how Heinrich Schenker came to his conclusions that western music is about structure, relationships and hierarchy rather than objects -- relationships in a lattice (being a spatial relationship), rather a grid (map) upon which objects are fixed [absolutely]. Best Kevin