Subject: Re: About Silence From: Pablo Hernan Rodriguez Zivic <elsonidoq@xxxxxxxx> Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2009 13:50:32 -0300 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>Eliot Handelman wrote: > Pablo Hernan Rodriguez Zivic wrote: > >> >> Where can I download your program? >> > Unfortunately I have to develop in a propietary way. Why's that? I understand that you don't give the source code upon you publish it, but why don't you make the binaries freely available? > >> I red in the link that you put in your mail that what you made is >> based on German folktune. Is it appliable to tonal music in general? >> > Rather, INSPIRED by my studies on folksong. I also worked on major > classical pieces such as symphonies & concerti. The main > idea is that what makes tonal music is not specifically tonality but > shape. Ohh, I get it. > >> The other thing I'm concern of, is whether or not you have parameters >> that somhow reflect what the program is going to do in terms of what >> the listener may perceive. > No, because that's impossible to predict in any non-trivial way. I'd not make such a strong claim. I think that there is much that can be done, and there's much that can not be done, of course =D. > >> I mean, its ok to develop an alternative theory of music, however, >> the listeners of the music remain the same, so you must reflect in >> your theory some estetic concerns of what we humans like to listen >> (and it's somehow resumed in standard music theory). >> > I'm afraid standard music theory is not at all about that. That is why > you need an altyernative theory if you want to > thnik about how to make whole compositions. I can't say whether I agree or not, because I don't know your model. > > >> It's interesting what you say, if you have something to reed, it will >> be a pleasure for me to reed it. > > Some papers are underway -- if you care to check back (I don;t know > when). ok, I will! >> I'm developing a theory too, based on statistical models and >> intuition =D, hope I have something to show in short! >> > Well, I worked for a LONG time before I got to where I am -- this is > not a trivial area. It is not in fact, that's why is so entertaining! =D best wishes for you too! salú! > > best wishes, > > -- eliot >> salú! >> >> Pablo >> >> Eliot Handelman wrote: >>>> >>>> Since the very beginning of my research I had trouble modeling >>>> silence. The silence is not just another pitch which has the >>>> ability of not to sound. I think that silence has to be treated >>>> apart from pitches, but I don't know how. >>> A question is "in what way is silence an event in the way pitch is an >>> event?" >>> >>> Consider that musical events are always durational events (which poses >>> a philosophical problem as to whether the feeling someone gets from >>> music is necessarily durational). Qualitatively, musical silence is >>> (or can be) a kind of echoic extending of the last thing heard -- as >>> in a big crash before a long silence, with the crash still in echoic >>> memory. So silence is best seen not as "nothing" but rather as a >>> durational extension of a preceding sounding event. Rather than >>> theorizing silence, then, you need to theorize duration. >>> >>> In computational composing, as I practice it -- see below -- duration >>> is the minimal & principle thing theorized. A collection of pitches >>> can be surmised as having a single duration when we can surmise the >>> likelihood of perceptual grouping. For example a fast scale ending on >>> an accented long note will tend to be grouped as a single event -- it >>> is a "shape." With these you make bigger shapes, until you can work >>> out that you have made a whole piece. In my work, "shapes" recursively >>> form part of macro-structural systems called "supershapes." >>> >>> Nothing in music is ever an end in itself -- with duration (of shape, >>> of pattern of shapes, etc.) you can construct new rhythms and >>> patterns. You can construct patterns of "silence" just as you can >>> construct "the pattern of recurrence of the main theme or any of its >>> transformations." It may be a component of a rhythm or pattern of >>> rhythms, etc. Since the perception depends on whatever shapes come >>> forward to the listener -- which bigger components we are in -- it is >>> wrong to surmise that "silence" or "longness" are necessarily phrase >>> demarcaters. How they function would tend to be determined by the >>> music itself. >>> >>> >>> -- eliot >>> http://www.colba.net/~eliot/shape_web.html >> >> >