Subject: Re: harmonic extraction From: David Smith <smithd@xxxxxxxx> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2009 08:58:15 -0500 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --_----------=_123807589570620 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Given the stimuli, I think you would be hard pressed to find a mechanical system, the atmosphere and ear included, which did not exhibit response at 200Hz. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Bregman" To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] harmonic extraction Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 12:46:37 -0400 Dear James, This example of duplex perception, outside the domain of speech, and clearly not involving two distinct mental "modules", is very interesting, throws a different light on duplex perception of speech, and is certainly worth further development and publication.. Best, Al ------------------------------------------------------------------- Albert S. Bregman, Emeritus Professor Psychology Department, McGill University 1205 Docteur Penfield Avenue Montreal, QC, Canada H3A 1B1. Office: Phone: (514) 398-6103 Fax: (514) 398-4896 Residence phone & fax: (514) 484-2592 www.psych.mcgill.ca/labs/auditory/Home.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 10:35 AM, James Bashford wrote: > Dear Xueliang Zhang, > > I was intrigued by the interchange between you, Yoshitaka Nakajima, and > Al Bregman, and did some listening, diotically through headphones, to > stimuli consisting of the first 10 harmonics of 100 Hz alternating with the > 5 even harmonics of that stimulus (all harmonics were presented at the same > level). With on/off times for each complex matched at either 0.5 sec or 1.0 > sec (10 ms rise/fall), I hear a fully continous 200-Hz tone that matches the > intensity and timbre of the isolated even-harmonic complex. More > interesting, however, is that the 10-component =93all-harmonic=94 stimulus, > which is heard intermittently, has not only the 100-Hz pitch of that complex > but also retains the loudness and timbre of the all-harmonic stimulus as > heard when it is presented in isolation. Were the even harmonics of the > all-harmonic complex exclusively allocated to support perception of the > continuous 200-Hz complex tone -- leaving only the odd-harmonics to support > perception of the 100 Hz tone -- we would expect both a reduction in > loudness and a clear shift in timbre to the =93hollow=94 quality characteristic > of odd-harmonic signals. This suggests that the =93priming=94 or =93capture=94 > effect observed with complex tones provides an example of duplex perception > that requires neither a verbal stimulus nor dichotic presentation. As I > recall, Al Bregman has previously suggested that such an effect might occur > when nonverbal stimulus input is strongly ambiguous. > > This use of the even-harmonic components to support two simultaneous > percepts (that of both the intermittent =93all-harmonic=94 tone and the > continuous even-harmonic tone) contrasts sharply with the processing > underlying the general phenomenon of illusory continuity that is observed > when one sound alternates with a higher-intensity, potential masking > sound. The latter effect, which has been called auditory induction (Warren, > 1972), occurs with a wide variety of signals, such as tones alternating with > other tones, noise alternating with higher intensity noise, or speech > interrupted by noise (phonemic restoration). This type of continuity, in > which there are no exactly matching components to be found between the > alternating signals, does appear to involve subtractive or exclusive > allocation. For interrupted tones, noise, or speech, continuity is obtained > at the expense of the interrupting signal, which is reduced in loudness by > an amount proportional to the extent the illusion (Warren et al., 1994). > > Warren, R. M., Obusek, C. and Ackroff, J. M. (1972). Auditory induction: > Perceptual synthesis of absent sounds. Science, 176, 1149-1151. > > Warren, R. M., Bashford, J. A., Jr., Healy, E. W., and Brubaker, B. S. > (1994). Auditory induction: Reciprocal changes in alternating sounds. > Perception & Psychophysics, 55, 313-322. > > > > James Bashford > > On Mar 19, 2009, at 5:24 AM, xlzhang wrote: > > Dear list, > A pure tone can extract corresponding harmonic from complex sound when > appearing alternatively. I wonder if a harmonic sound can do the same job? > For example, a complex sound with F0=3D200Hz appears with a complex sound > with F0=3D100 Hz, can we get a continuous perception for F0=3D200Hz? > Thank you for your answers in advance. > > Xueliang Zhang > > -- --=20 Be Yourself @xxxxxxxx mail.com! Choose From 200+ Email Addresses Get a Free Account at www.mail.com --_----------=_123807589570620 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" <div> <br> Given the stimuli, I think you would be hard pressed to find a mechanical s= ystem,<br>the atmosphere and ear included, which did not exhibit response a= t 200Hz.<br> <blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: = 5px; padding-left: 5px;">----- Original Message -----<br> From: "Al Bregman" <al.bregman@xxxxxxxx><br> To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx<br> Subject: Re: [AUDITORY] harmonic extraction<br> Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 12:46:37 -0400<br> <br> <br> Dear James,<br> <br> This example of duplex perception, outside the domain of speech, and<br> clearly not involving two distinct mental "modules", is very<br> interesting, throws a different light on duplex perception of speech,<br> and is certainly worth further development and publication..<br> <br> Best,<br> Al<br> -------------------------------------------------------------------<br> Albert S. Bregman, Emeritus Professor<br> Psychology Department, McGill University<br> 1205 Docteur Penfield Avenue<br> Montreal, QC, Canada H3A 1B1.<br> Office: Phone: (514) 398-6103<br> Fax: (514) 398-4896<br> Residence phone & fax: (514) 484-2592<br> www.psych.mcgill.ca/labs/auditory/Home.html<br> -------------------------------------------------------------------<br> <br> On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 10:35 AM, James Bashford <bashford@xxxxxxxx> wrote:<= br> > Dear Xueliang Zhang,<br> ><br> > I was intrigued by the interchange between you, Yosh= itaka Nakajima, and<br> > Al Bregman, and did some listening, diotically through headphones, to<= br> > stimuli consisting of the first 10 harmonics of 100 Hz alternating wit= h the<br> > 5 even harmonics of that stimulus (all harmonics were presented at the= same<br> > level). With on/off times for each complex matched at eithe= r 0.5 sec or 1.0<br> > sec (10 ms rise/fall), I hear a fully continous 200-Hz tone that match= es the<br> > intensity and timbre of the isolated even-harmonic complex.  = ;More<br> > interesting, however, is that the 10-component =93all-harmonic=94 stim= ulus,<br> > which is heard intermittently, has not only the 100-Hz pitch of that c= omplex<br> > but also retains the loudness and timbre of the all-harmonic stimulus = as<br> > heard when it is presented in isolation. Were the even harm= onics of the<br> > all-harmonic complex exclusively allocated to support perception of th= e<br> > continuous 200-Hz complex tone -- leaving only the odd-harmonics to su= pport<br> > perception of the 100 Hz tone -- we would expect both a reduction in<b= r> > loudness and a clear shift in timbre to the =93hollow=94 quality chara= cteristic<br> > of odd-harmonic signals. This suggests that the =93priming= =94 or =93capture=94<br> > effect observed with complex tones provides an example of duplex perce= ption<br> > that requires neither a verbal stimulus nor dichotic presentation.&nbs= p; As I<br> > recall, Al Bregman has previously suggested that such an effect might = occur<br> > when nonverbal stimulus input is strongly ambiguous.<br> ><br> > This use of the even-harmonic component= s to support two simultaneous<br> > percepts (that of both the intermittent =93all-harmonic=94 tone and th= e<br> > continuous even-harmonic tone) contrasts sharply with the processing<b= r> > underlying the general phenomenon of illusory continuity that is obser= ved<br> > when one sound alternates with a higher-intensity, potential masking<b= r> > sound. The latter effect, which has been called auditory in= duction (Warren,<br> > 1972), occurs with a wide variety of signals, such as tones alternatin= g with<br> > other tones, noise alternating with higher intensity noise, or speech<= br> > interrupted by noise (phonemic restoration). This type of c= ontinuity, in<br> > which there are no exactly matching components to be found between the= <br> > alternating signals, does appear to involve subtractive or exclusive<b= r> > allocation. For interrupted tones, noise, or speech, contin= uity is obtained<br> > at the expense of the interrupting signal, which is reduced in loudnes= s by<br> > an amount proportional to the extent the illusion (Warren et al., 1994= ).<br> ><br> > Warren, R. M., Obusek, C. and Ackroff, J. M. (1972). Auditory inductio= n:<br> > Perceptual synthesis of absent sounds. Science, 176, 1149-1151.<b= r> ><br> > Warren, R. M., Bashford, J. A., Jr., Healy, E. W., and Brubaker, B. S.= <br> > (1994). Auditory induction: Reciprocal changes in alternating sounds.<= br> > Perception & Psychophysics, 55, 313-322.<br> ><br> ><br> ><br> > James Bashford<br> ><br> > On Mar 19, 2009, at 5:24 AM, xlzhang wrote:<br> ><br> > Dear list,<br> > A pure tone can extract corresponding harmonic from complex sound when= <br> > appearing alternatively. I wonder if a harmonic sound can do the same = job?<br> > For example, a complex sound with F0=3D200Hz appears with a complex so= und<br> > with F0=3D100 Hz, can we get a continuous perception for F0=3D200Hz?<b= r> > Thank you for your answers in advance.<br> ><br> > Xueliang Zhang<br> ><br> ><br> <br> <br> <br> --<br> </bashford@xxxxxxxx></al.bregman@xxxxxxxx></blockquote> </div> <BR> --=20 <div> Be Yourself @xxxxxxxx mail.com!<br> Choose From 200+ Email Addresses<br> Get a <b>Free</b> Account at <a href=3D"http://www.mail.com/Product.aspx" t= arget=3D"_blank">www.mail.com</a>!</div> --_----------=_123807589570620--