Subject: Re: information transmission analyses From: "Iftikhar Riaz (Lance) Nizami" <Nizamii2@xxxxxxxx> Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 11:44:37 EST List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>-------------------------------1235493877 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I did my Master's on this subject, and had to chance to read Attneave and the rest of the literature in depth. Information theory as applied to psychology, as popularized by Attneave after Garner & Hake, has nothing at all to do with transmission of anything. When applied to traditional absolute judgment (identification) experiments, for example, it is merely an alternative measure of short-term sensory memory. Which has nothing to do with Claude Shannon's "general communications system". In your case, memory capacity is probably what the analysis will indicate. I am surprised that anyone uses the Garner-Hake information approach anymore; mathematical psychologists (Duncan Luce, Donald Laming, Sandy MacRae, etc.) recognized its severe limitations years ago and abandoned it. So (eventually) did acoustics users like Neff and Lutfi. The human being is NOT a Shannon communication channel. Granted, the measures that result from processing the confusion matrix are covariance measures of a sort. In that case, ordinary covariance measures may provide a more meaningful way of analyzing your data. In response to your question, then, none of TRANS, TRANS/INPUT or TRANS/TI are appropriate measures for your purposes. Information theory doesn't work that way. Attneave got the math right, but that had already been done; but Attneave's interpretations (after Garner & Hake) were all dead wrong. - Lance Nizami BSc (Physics) MSc (Biomedical Engineering) PhD (Psychophysics), Decatur, GA 30030 In a message dated 2/24/2009 4:54:12 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, caro_jacquier@xxxxxxxx writes: Dear members, I would like to analyse phonetic feature transmission (especially voicing and place of articulation of french plosive consonants) on the basis of individual confusion matrices. My study is about compressed speech perception in dyslexic adults. I have already downloaded the software for information transfer and SINFA analysis (Stuart Rosen ) and I have run the analyses (on 32 subjects). My first question is: which value is the more relevant in the report (TRANS, TRANS/INPUT or TRANS/TI) ? My second question is about individual confusion matrices: Do I have to do one analyse per subject ? I hope that someone could help me. Thank you very much. Best regards, Caroline **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1218822736x1201267884/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fwww.freecreditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) -------------------------------1235493877 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16809" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY:=20= Arial"=20 bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7><FONT id=3Drol= e_document=20 face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2> <DIV>I did my Master's on this subject, and had to chance to read Attneave a= nd=20 the rest of the literature in depth. Information theory as applied to=20 psychology, as popularized by Attneave after Garner & Hake, h= as=20 nothing at all to do with transmission of anything. When applied to=20 traditional absolute judgment (identification) experiments, for example, it=20= is=20 merely an alternative measure of short-term sensory memory. Which has=20 nothing to do with Claude Shannon's "general communications system". I= n=20 your case, memory capacity is probably what the analysis will=20 indicate. I am surprised that anyone uses the Garner-Hake informa= tion=20 approach anymore; mathematical psychologists (Duncan Luce, Donald Laming, Sa= ndy=20 MacRae, etc.) recognized its severe limitations years ago and abandoned=20 it. So (eventually) did acoustics users like Neff and Lutfi. The= =20 human being is NOT a Shannon communication channel. Granted, = ;the=20 measures that result from processing the confusion matrix are covariance=20 measures <EM>of a sort</EM>. In that case, ordinary covarian= ce=20 measures may provide a more meaningful way of analyzing your data. In=20 response to your question, then, none of TRANS, TRANS/INPUT or TRANS/TI= are=20 appropriate measures for your purposes. Information theory doesn't wor= k=20 that way. Attneave got the math right, but that had already been=20 done; but Attneave's interpretations (after Garner & Hake) were all= =20 dead wrong. - Lance Nizami BSc (Physics) MSc (Biomedical Engineering)=20= PhD=20 (Psychophysics), Decatur, GA 30030</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>In a message dated 2/24/2009 4:54:12 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,=20 caro_jacquier@xxxxxxxx writes:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid"><= FONT=20 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D#= 000000=20 size=3D3> <DIV=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, s= erif"> <DIV>Dear members,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I<FONT face=3D"times new roman, new york, times, serif"> would like t= o=20 analyse phonetic feature transmission (especially voicing and place of=20 articulation of french plosive consonants) on the basis of individual=20 confusion matrices. My study is about compressed speech perception in= =20 dyslexic adults. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D"times new roman, new york, times, serif">I have already= =20 downloaded the s<SPAN class=3D375500014-17022009>oftware for information=20 transfer and SINFA analysis (Stuart Rosen ) and I have run the analyses=20 (on 32 subjects).</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D375500014-17022009><FONT=20 face=3D"times new roman, new york, times, serif">My first question is: whi= ch=20 value is the more relevant in the report (TRANS, TRANS/INPUT or TRANS/TI)=20 ?</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D375500014-17022009><FONT=20 face=3D"times new roman, new york, times, serif">My second question is abo= ut=20 individual confusion matrices: Do I have to do one analyse per subject=20 ? </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D375500014-17022009></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D375500014-17022009>I hope that someone could help=20 me.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D375500014-17022009>Thank you very much.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D375500014-17022009>Best regards,</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D375500014-17022009></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D375500014-17022009>Caroline</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20 class=3D375500014-17022009></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV></DIV><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></FONT><br/><font style= =3D"color:black;font:normal 10pt arial,san-serif;"> <hr style=3D"margin-top:= 10px"/><b>A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. <a href=3D"http://pr.atwola.c= om/promoclk/100126575x1218822736x1201267884/aol?redir=3Dhttp:%2F%2Fwww.freec= reditreport.com%2Fpm%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fsc%3D668072%26hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3Dfebe= mailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2 easy steps!</a></b></font></DIV></BODY>= </HTML> -------------------------------1235493877--