Subject: Musician's IQ From: Brian Gygi <bgygi@xxxxxxxx> Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 20:49:42 +0000 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>----=_vm_0011_W2770324146_8894_1218228582 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Musicians have a bigger IQ than other people." Hmm...not the musicians *I* used to play with. Certainly not the drummers= . Seriously, I don't see any reason to think that musicians would have *hig= her* IQs than "other people." The mental abilities measured by the IQ - a= nalytical thinking, memory capacity - are not unique to musicians. One mi= ght argue that you cannot be a good musician without them, but then you g= et into the slippery definition of what is a "good" musician, e.g., what = are "right notes" (how about Charlie Parker when he was skroning)? What i= s musicianship? Of course classically trained musicians who have had hours of ear trainin= g, sight reading and been forced to memorize long pieces will likely scor= e better on the IQ test than normal controls, but is that an ability rela= ted to being a musician or just a result of being forced to do mentally c= hallenging tasks? Are these people any more musicians than a naturally gi= fted musician who cannot sight read and is by most measures dumb as a pos= t? If you operationalize the definitions quite a bit you might get a testabl= e hypothesis. But my advice - don't test drummers. Brian Gygi Veterans Affairs Northern CAlifornia Health Care System Martinez CA -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Ladwig [mailto:clarinetbuddy8@xxxxxxxx Sent: Friday, August 8, 2008 01:10 PM To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx Subject: Rethinking my psychology seminar project I originally planned to do my project on intelligence differences between= musicians and non-musicians..but I thought that was too fague and we alr= eady know that musicians have a bigger IQ then other people. I decided to do my study on..well here is my hypothesis: More persistent = musicians have higher IQ's then less persistent musicians. So instead of looking at people who do and don't play music..we can look = at people that both play but some musicians may be at reading, making the= right sounds and putting a lot of musicianship into the music. Think of = great musicians like Charlie Parker and Gene Krupa..just by listening to = how they play, you must believe that they were geniuses. I was think of taking 25 good musicians and 25 not so good musicians and = give them some kind of IQ test and playing ability test..not sure what ki= nd yet..got any tips on that? There are probably factors involved? (maybe= being lazy, not wanting to practice or wanting to be the best...other th= an a not so good musician's IQ.) Maybe some physiological and mentel aspe= cts involved. If not that idea, do you have any good ideas around that kind of field?? = If you have any tips or ideas and places where I can get some research on= these narrow topic PLEASE let me know! If you have any other good idea a= lso please let me know! I'm a psychology major at CSU Chico working on my BA right now. I plan to= go to a grad school to get my Ph.D in Cognitive Neuroscience. Thank you! ~Dan T. Ladwig ----=_vm_0011_W2770324146_8894_1218228582 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </D= IV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>"Musicians have a bigger IQ than othe= r people." </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Hmm...not the musicians *I* used to p= lay with. Certainly not the drummers.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Seriously, I don't see any reason to = think that musicians would have *higher* IQs than "other people." T= he mental abilities measured by the IQ - analytical thinking, memory capa= city - are not unique to musicians. One might argue that you cannot be a&= nbsp;good musician without them, but then you get into the slippery defin= ition of what is a "good" musician, e.g., what are "right notes" (ho= w about Charlie Parker when he was skroning)? What is musicianship?= </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Of course classically trained musicia= ns who have had hours of ear training, sight reading and been forced to m= emorize long pieces will likely score better on the IQ test than normal c= ontrols, but is that an ability related to being a musician or just a res= ult of being forced to do mentally challenging tasks? Are these peo= ple any more musicians than a naturally gifted musician who cannot sight = read and is by most measures dumb as a post?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>If you operationalize the definitions= quite a bit you might get a testable hypothesis. But my advice - d= on't test drummers.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Brian Gygi</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Veterans Affairs Northern CAlifornia = Health Care System</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Martinez CA</FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0= 000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>-----Ori= ginal Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Daniel Ladwig [mailto:clarinetbuddy8@xxxxxxxx= AHOO.COM]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, August 8, 2008 01:10 PM<BR><B>To:</B> A= UDITORY@xxxxxxxx<BR><B>Subject:</B> Rethinking my psychology semin= ar project<BR><BR></FONT> <TABLE class=3D"" cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 border=3D0> <TBODY> <TR> <TD class=3D"" vAlign=3Dtop> <H1 class=3Dsubject> </H1> <DIV class=3Dcontent>I originally planned to do my project on intelligenc= e differences between musicians and non-musicians..but I thought that was= too fague and we already know that musicians have a bigger IQ then other= people.<BR>I decided to do my study on..well here is my hypothesis: More= persistent musicians have higher IQ's then less persistent musicians.<BR= >So instead of looking at people who do and don't play music..we can look= at people that both play but some musicians may be at reading, making th= e right sounds and putting a lot of musicianship into the music. Think of= great musicians like Charlie Parker and Gene Krupa..just by listening to= how they play, you must believe that they were geniuses.<BR>I was think = of taking 25 good musicians and 25 not so good musicians and give them so= me kind of IQ test and playing ability test..not sure what kind yet..got = any tips on that? There are probably factors involved? (maybe being lazy,= not wanting to practice or wanting to be the best...other than a not so = good musician's IQ.) Maybe some physiological and mentel aspects involved= .</DIV> <DIV class=3Dcontent>If not that idea, do you have any good ideas around = that kind of field?? <BR>If you have any tips or ideas and places wh= ere I can get some research on these narrow topic PLEASE let me know! If = you have any other good idea also please let me know!</DIV> <DIV class=3Dcontent>I'm a psychology major at CSU Chico working on my BA= right now. I plan to go to a grad school to get my Ph.D in Cognitive Neu= roscience.<BR>Thank you!</DIV> <DIV class=3Dcontent>~Dan T. Ladwig</DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></= BLOCKQUOTE></html> ----=_vm_0011_W2770324146_8894_1218228582--