Subject: Re: AUDITORY Digest - OT From: Rick <ricknance@xxxxxxxx> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 01:11:24 -0500 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>An observation, question and a request to people on this list. I was trained as a typographer, so I don't say this off-handedly or to offend. I have never seen an advantage in sending emails in html OR rtf formats. I think, though for some it _may_ be some kind of significant help. What it is, please tell me. I'm not being facetious or anything, because if there's a reason that the digest MUST come out looking like what I've pasted below, I want to know. so that I'm not so bothered by it. It IS a pain to slog through though and a shame if it's only an oversight. If it is only because the default on your email program is set there and you've never given it thought, please consider shutting it off if you don't think it helps. I repeat, if there's a reason, that's all well and good, if it's just a default, please consider shutting it off for simplicity's sake. Thanks much, Rick Nance +++++++++++++++++++++ evil code trough follows... --Apple-Mail-3-502541080 ..... -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Hi Susan,<div><br></div><div>I = believe this is exactly why the older term of "perfect pitch" was = substituted with the newer term of "absolute pitch", which is not meant = to imply that the Western tonal system has any more value than other = musical tonal systems, e.g. India. Or at least, that is my = understanding. There are of course many individuals with AP who = are not raised within the Western tonal system, and indeed, if the = evidence is to be believed, the incidence of AP may well be = significantly higher in speakers of tone languages, like Mandarin and = Korean, perhaps because they associate pitch with verbal labels early = on, as Deutsch suggests. Whether or not it is of any "use" to them = for non-speech purposes, in the way that it is to performers of Western = music, is perhaps the more interesting = question?</div><div><br></div><div>Let's not get too hung up on the = terminology.</div><div><br></div><div>Jose</div><div><br></div><div><br><d= iv><div>On 19 Apr 2008, at 07:15, Susan Allen wrote:</div><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Hi,<br><br>I= find it amazing that you all talk about absolute or perfect pitch in = regard to Western tuning systems!<br>Why are Western systems 'perfect' = or 'absolute'?<br>These tuning systems are constructed, like the Bible, = on thousands of inputs and are not related to any 'one thing' except = their own outcome!<br>viz Stuart Isacoff "Temperament" which documents = the history of how we arrived at our "perfect" systems!!<br>They are not = 'perfect' and they represent nothing except imperialistic notions...how = could pitch be perfect in Iran? in Thailand? in Indonesia? in = Africa?<br><br><br>Susan Allen<br><br>Susan Allen PhD<br>Associate Dean = for Academic Affairs<br>Instructor of Harp & Improvisation<br>The = Herb Alpert School of Music at CalArts<br>California Institute of the = Arts<br>Valencia, CA 91355 USA<br><br>phone 661-753-4200<br><br><a = href=3D"http://music.calarts.edu/~susie">http://music.calarts.edu/~susie</= a><br><br><br>On Apr 18, 2008, at 10:57 PM, Arturo Camacho = wrote:<br><br><blockquote = type=3D"cite">Anthony,<br></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Check = http://www.perfectpitch.com. They claim that many people = have<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">acquired perfect pitch = with their method and cite two studies in which = its<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">effectiveness has been = confirmed:<br></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">(1) Rush, M. A. = An experimental investigation of the effectiveness = of<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">training on absolute pitch = in adult musicians, The Ohio State = University.<br></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">(2) Nering, = Marguerite Elaine. A study to determine the effectiveness = of<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">the David Lucas Burge = technique for development of Perfect Pitch, = The<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">University of = Calgary.<br></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">I tried the = method about 15 years ago and got to hear what they = described:<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">a maximum in = smoothness at C and a maximum in sharpness at F# (those = were<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">not their exact words, = but what I remember I perceived). However, I = was<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">not as consistent as = recommended (I was too busy to practice everyday) = and<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">after a while my = performance actually started to decrease. I gave up = at<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">about 1/4 of the = course.<br></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite">Arturo<br></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite">Hi, i've found some interesting comments on absolute pitch = on this<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote= type=3D"cite">mailing list and was wondering if anyone has heard of any = examples of<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">people who have acquired = absolute pitch somehow during their later = lives,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite">ie not in early childhood = development.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">There is a clear trend between = absolute pitch (AP) and autism, and = many<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite">autistic savants with musical talents (which tend to be = more in terms of<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">music reproduction ability than = creative composition) that have = been<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite">examined also have AP. There are numerous examples of = people who have<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">acquired special abilities such = as those exhibited by autistic savants = as<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite">a result of injury or other non-developmental processes. I = haven't however<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">heard of any examples of people = who have acquired AP later in life, = it<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite">would be very useful if anyone knows of any = examples.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">There are suggestions that AP = development is an independent process = that<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite">is present in autistic and non-autistic people, and that = presence of AP is<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">pre-requisite for development of = special musical abilities for = savants.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">This model would suggest that = cases of later-life AP<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">development would be unlikely, = however if there are any examples of = people<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite">developing AP later in life for example through brain = injury, similar to<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">how savant-like special = abilities have been shown to be = developed<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">(essentially spontaneously), it = would be very useful.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite">thanks<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite">Anthony<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">a couple of = references:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">** = <http://www.brams.umontreal.ca/plab/publications/article/32>Absolute<br= ></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite">pitch in autism: a case study, L Mottron, I Peretz, S = Belleville, N Rouleau<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">- Neurocase, = 1999<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Musical savants: exceptional = skill in the mentally retarded, Miller L = K,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite">Lawrence Erlbaum, 1989: = 266<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Absolute pitch in blind = musicians, Roy H. Hamilton, Alvaro = Pascual-Leone<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">and Gottfried Schlaug, = NeuroReport Vol 15 No 5, 9 April = 2004<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite">--<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Leuconoe, don't ask =97 it's = dangerous to know =97 what end the gods = will<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite">give me or you. Don't play with Babylonian fortune-telling = either. Better<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">just deal with whatever comes = your way. Whether you'll see several = more<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite">winters or whether the last one Jupiter gives you is the = one even now<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">pelting the rocks on the shore = with the waves of the Tyrrhenian sea =97 = be<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite">smart, drink your wine. Scale back your long hopes to a = short period. Even<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">as we speak, envious time is = running away from us. Seize the day, = trusting<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote type=3D"cite">little in the = future.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><blockquote= type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">-- = <br></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite">__________________________________________________<br></bloc= kquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite">Arturo Camacho, PhD<br></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite">Alumni<br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Computer = and Information Science and Engineering<br></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite">University of Florida<br></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite">Web page: = www.cise.ufl.edu/~acamacho<br></blockquote><blockquote = type=3D"cite">__________________________________________________<br></bloc= kquote></blockquote></div><br><div apple-content-edited=3D"true"> <span = class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: = rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: = normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: = normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: = 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: = 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: = break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" = style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; = orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; 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-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: = break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" = style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; = orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: = break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" = style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; = orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: = break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" = style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; = orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: = break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" = style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; = orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: = break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" = style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; = orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: = break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" = style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; = orphans: 2; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; = -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: = auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div style=3D"word-wrap: = break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = after-white-space; = "><div>_______________________________________</div><div><b><br = class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></b></div><div>Jos=E9 Ignacio = Alc=E1ntara, M.A., Ph.D.</div><div><br = class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>University = Lecturer</div><div><i><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"3"><span = class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 13px; "><font = class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"'Times New Roman'"><font = class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#000000">Department of Experimental = Psychology</font></font></span></font></i></div><div><i><font = class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" = style=3D"font-size: 13px; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" = face=3D"'Times New Roman'"><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" = color=3D"#000000">University of = Cambridge</font></font></span></font></i></div><div><i><font = class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" = style=3D"font-size: 13px; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" = face=3D"'Times New Roman'"><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" = color=3D"#000000">Downing = Street</font></font></span></font></i></div><div><i><font = class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" = style=3D"font-size: 13px; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" = face=3D"'Times New Roman'"><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" = color=3D"#000000">Cambridge CB2 = 3EB</font></font></span></font></i></div><div><br = class=3D"webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>Fellow and = Tutor,</div><div>Director of Studies in Natural Sciences = (Biological)</div><div><i><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" = size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-size: 13px; = "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"'Times New Roman'"><font = class=3D"Apple-style-span" color=3D"#000000">Fitzwilliam = College</font></font></span></font></i></div><div><i><font = class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" = style=3D"font-size: 13px; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" = face=3D"'Times New Roman'"><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" = color=3D"#000000">Storey's = Way</font></font></span></font></i></div><div><i><font = class=3D"Apple-style-span" size=3D"3"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" = style=3D"font-size: 13px; "><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" = face=3D"'Times New Roman'"><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" = color=3D"#000000">Cambridge CB3 = 0DG</font></font></span></font></i></div><div><br></div><div>_____________= ___________________________</div></div></span><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div><div style=3D"word-wrap: = break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: = after-white-space; "><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" = style=3D"font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 16px; "><font = size=3D"6" color=3D"green" face=3D"Webdings"><span lang=3D"NL-BE" = style=3D"font-size: 24pt; font-family: Webdings; color: green; = ">P</span></font><font face=3D"Arial"><span lang=3D"NL-BE" = style=3D"font-family: Arial; "> </span></font><font size=3D"2" = color=3D"green" face=3D"Arial"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; = font-family: Arial; color: green; ">Please consider the environment = before printing this e-mail</span></font></span></div></span><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"> </div><br></div></body></html>= --Apple-Mail-3-502541080-- ------------------------------ End of AUDITORY Digest - 18 Apr 2008 to 19 Apr 2008 (#2008-84) ************************************************************** -- ====================== Rick Nance PlasticMusic.Net