Subject: Re: cross-modality-size-loud From: Peter Lennox <P.Lennox@xxxxxxxx> Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 10:58:45 +0100 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>this seems off to one side, a little, but taking a vaguely 'ecological approach', although we've been talking about objects in isolation, broken down into the striker and the struck - in the real world, large sounding objects have differnt physical (inc. acoustical) relationships with the surrounding environment. That is, given that a larger sounding object can entail more overall energy, then the transmission through ground and other structures will differ (from the case of small objects). This secondary energy 'hangs on' later, so the overall event has quite a different frequency-with-time structure. So, whilst we can construct 'special case' events to minimise the effects of size of struck object on local environment structures, it should be recognised that these are indeed special cases. regards ppl Dr. Peter Lennox S.P.A.R.G. Signal Processing Applications Research Group University of Derby http://sparg.derby.ac.uk Int. tel: 3155 >>> "Daniel J. Tollin" <Daniel.Tollin@xxxxxxxx> 17/09/2007 18:53 >>> Some bats can produce ultrasonic sounds (vocalizations) well over 100 dB. And bats are pretty small. So getting back to Jan's point, pitch might better correlate with size. Dan Tollin ________________________________ From: AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception on behalf of Bob Carlyon Sent: Mon 9/17/2007 4:32 AM To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx Subject: Re: cross-modality-size-loud Hmm.., I think this depends on whether you are talking about the source or the filter; if a large person hits a bell then it generally makes more sound than if a small person does. When it comes to organisms, size and loudness co-vary: elephants are louder than mice, and adults are louder than their young. There are of course exceptions, as anyone who has ever taken children to a restaurant will testify... bob Jan Schnupp wrote: Dear Peter, if you hit a large bell and a small bell, how loud they are does not depend on size, but on how hard you hit them. The larger the object the deeper the sound, because resonant frequency is proportional to mass. So if there is a link with size, then it should be pitch more than loudness. Jan On 17/09/2007, pieter jan stallen <pj.stallen@xxxxxxxx> wrote: Dear List, Does anyone know of experimental psychological data reported which refutes (or not) the hypothesis: the perception of object O as "has much of quality X" predisposes to the perception also of "has much of quality Y"? E.g., is there empirical evidence for cross-modal bonds like "large objects (much of size) are loud objects (much of sound)" ? Although I see brain research approaching the subject (e.g. http://www.dhushara.com/pdf/synesthesia.pdf <http://www.dhushara.com/pdf/synesthesia.pdf> ) I have not (yet) found so much empirical psychology about such metaphors. I may not have studied carefully enough the synaestesia literature, but appreciate any more specific 'forwardings' then. Pieter Jan Stallen / Chair Community Noise Annoyance / University of Leiden / Netherlands -- Dr Jan Schnupp University of Oxford Dept. of Physiology, Anatomy and Genetics Sherrington Building - Parks Road Oxford OX1 3PT - UK +44-1865-272513 www.oxfordhearing.com <http://www.oxfordhearing.com/> -- Dr. Bob Carlyon MRC Cognition & Brain Sciences Unit 15 Chaucer Rd. Cambridge CB2 7EF England Phone: +44 1223 355294 ext 651 Fax: +44 1223 359062 www.mrc-cbu.cam.ac.uk <http://www.mrc-cbu.cam.ac.uk/> ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________