Subject: Re: cross-modality-size-loud From: "Daniel J. Tollin" <Daniel.Tollin@xxxxxxxx> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 11:53:07 -0600 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F953.9AB1FA5A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Some bats can produce ultrasonic sounds (vocalizations) well over 100 = dB. And bats are pretty small. So getting back to Jan's point, pitch = might better correlate with size. =20 Dan Tollin ________________________________ From: AUDITORY - Research in Auditory Perception on behalf of Bob = Carlyon Sent: Mon 9/17/2007 4:32 AM To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx Subject: Re: cross-modality-size-loud Hmm.., I think this depends on whether you are talking about the source = or the filter; if a large person hits a bell then it generally makes = more sound than if a small person does. When it comes to organisms, = size and loudness co-vary: elephants are louder than mice, and adults = are louder than their young. There are of course exceptions, as anyone = who has ever taken children to a restaurant will testify... bob Jan Schnupp wrote:=20 Dear Peter, =09 if you hit a large bell and a small bell, how loud they are does not = depend on size, but on how hard you hit them. The larger the object the = deeper the sound, because resonant frequency is proportional to mass. So = if there is a link with size, then it should be pitch more than = loudness.=20 =09 Jan =09 =09 On 17/09/2007, pieter jan stallen <pj.stallen@xxxxxxxx> wrote:=20 Dear List, Does anyone know of experimental psychological data reported which = refutes (or not) the hypothesis: the perception of object O as "has much = of quality X" predisposes to the perception also of "has much of quality = Y"? E.g., is there empirical evidence for cross-modal bonds like "large = objects (much of size) are loud objects (much of sound)" ?=20 Although I see brain research approaching the subject (e.g. = http://www.dhushara.com/pdf/synesthesia.pdf = <http://www.dhushara.com/pdf/synesthesia.pdf> ) I have not (yet) found = so much empirical psychology about such metaphors. I may not have = studied carefully enough the synaestesia literature, but appreciate any = more specific 'forwardings' then. Pieter Jan Stallen / Chair Community Noise Annoyance / University of = Leiden / Netherlands --=20 Dr Jan Schnupp University of Oxford Dept. of Physiology, Anatomy and Genetics Sherrington Building - Parks Road Oxford OX1 3PT - UK +44-1865-272513 www.oxfordhearing.com <http://www.oxfordhearing.com/> =20 --=20 Dr. Bob Carlyon MRC Cognition & Brain Sciences Unit 15 Chaucer Rd. Cambridge CB2 7EF England Phone: +44 1223 355294 ext 651 Fax: +44 1223 359062 www.mrc-cbu.cam.ac.uk <http://www.mrc-cbu.cam.ac.uk/>=20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F953.9AB1FA5A Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <HTML dir=3Dltr><HEAD>=0A= <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dunicode">=0A= <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3157" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>=0A= <BODY text=3D#000000 bgColor=3D#ffffff>=0A= <DIV id=3DidOWAReplyText16485 dir=3Dltr>=0A= <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Some bats can = produce ultrasonic sounds (vocalizations) well over 100 dB. = And bats are pretty small. So getting back to Jan's point, = pitch might better correlate with size.</FONT></DIV>=0A= <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>=0A= <DIV dir=3Dltr><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dan Tollin</FONT></DIV></DIV>=0A= <DIV dir=3Dltr><BR>=0A= <HR tabIndex=3D-1>=0A= <FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> AUDITORY - Research in = Auditory Perception on behalf of Bob Carlyon<BR><B>Sent:</B> Mon = 9/17/2007 4:32 AM<BR><B>To:</B> = AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: = cross-modality-size-loud<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>=0A= <DIV>Hmm.., I think this depends on whether you are talking about the = source or the filter; if a large person hits a bell then it generally = makes more sound than if a small person does. When it comes to = organisms, size and loudness co-vary: elephants are louder than mice, = and adults are louder than their young. There are of course exceptions, = as anyone who has ever taken children to a restaurant will = testify...<BR><BR>bob<BR><BR><BR>Jan Schnupp wrote: =0A= <BLOCKQUOTE cite=3D"" type=3D"cite">Dear Peter,<BR><BR>if you hit a = large bell and a small bell, how loud they are does not depend on size, = but on how hard you hit them. The larger the object the deeper the = sound, because resonant frequency is proportional to mass. So if there = is a link with size, then it should be pitch more than loudness. = <BR><BR>Jan<BR><BR>=0A= <DIV><SPAN class=3Dgmail_quote>On 17/09/2007, <B = class=3Dgmail_sendername>pieter jan stallen</B> <<A = href=3D"mailto:pj.stallen@xxxxxxxx">pj.stallen@xxxxxxxx</A>> = wrote:</SPAN> =0A= <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0pt = 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">=0A= <DIV>=0A= <DIV>=0A= <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Dear List,</SPAN></P>=0A= <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Does anyone know = of<SPAN> </SPAN>experimental psychological data reported which = refutes (or not) the<SPAN> </SPAN>hypothesis: the perception of = object O as "has <I>much</I> of quality X" predisposes to the perception = also of "has <I>much</I> of quality Y"? E.g., is there empirical = evidence for cross-modal bonds like "large objects (much of size) are = loud objects (much of sound)" ? </SPAN></P>=0A= <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Although I see brain = research approaching the subject (e.g. <SPAN> </SPAN><A = href=3D"http://www.dhushara.com/pdf/synesthesia.pdf" = target=3D_blank><SPAN><FONT = color=3D#800080>http://www.dhushara.com/pdf/synesthesia.pdf = </FONT></SPAN></A>) I have not (yet) found so much empirical psychology = about such metaphors. I may not have studied carefully enough the = synaestesia literature, but appreciate any more specific 'forwardings' = then.</SPAN></P>=0A= <P style=3D"MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt"><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>Pieter Jan = Stallen</SPAN><SPAN lang=3DEN-US> / Chair Community Noise Annoyance / = University of Leiden / = Netherlands</SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR><BR = clear=3Dall><BR>-- <BR>Dr Jan Schnupp<BR>University of Oxford<BR>Dept. = of Physiology, Anatomy and Genetics<BR>Sherrington Building - Parks = Road<BR>Oxford OX1 3PT - UK<BR>+44-1865-272513<BR><A = href=3D"http://www.oxfordhearing.com/">www.oxfordhearing.com</A> = </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><PRE class=3Dmoz-signature cols=3D"72">-- =0A= Dr. Bob Carlyon=0A= MRC Cognition & Brain Sciences Unit=0A= 15 Chaucer Rd.=0A= Cambridge CB2 7EF=0A= England=0A= =0A= Phone: +44 1223 355294 ext 651=0A= Fax: +44 1223 359062=0A= <A class=3Dmoz-txt-link-abbreviated = href=3D"http://www.mrc-cbu.cam.ac.uk/">www.mrc-cbu.cam.ac.uk</A></PRE></D= IV></BODY></HTML> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7F953.9AB1FA5A--