Subject: Re: How much is needed for sound identification ? From: "Ballas, Jim (CIV, NRL)" <james.ballas@xxxxxxxx> Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2007 08:44:24 -0400 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms070603060406010700020406 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bruno, Yes it is, and in the text I consistently use "discrimination". The procedure was an ABX. At the time I was interested in understanding how identification processing works for everyday sounds that are very similar acoustically. This is an instance in which the title reflected the overall project, but was not accurate for the particular study. Guillaume's work was an identification paradigm. We both used 50 ms increments, and as expected identification requires more time than discrimination. But we both concluded that the processing of everyday sounds is successful very "early". Thanks. I'll add a clarifying note to the scanned document next to the title. Jim > Hi Jim: > > Isn't that a test of sound discrimination rather than identification? > > Best, > Bruno > >> I did a follow-up to the 1993 paper that Brian mentions and in that >> follow-up I used the gated stimulus paradigm. >> I further chose stimulus alternatives that had been confused in the >> initial identification study. >> After presenting the pair of sounds that had been confused, the >> subjects then heard one of the sounds with duration increased in 50 >> ms increments. Very little of the sound was needed to make the choice >> between which of the pair was being heard. >> >> The paper was presented at ICAD 94, and I can scan it and send it to >> anyone who would want it. >> >> The results are very task specific--the listeners could quickly adopt >> a strategy to focus on an initial acoustic difference between the >> pair and once they heard this cue, make their judgement. >> >> However, Guillaume et al (ICAD 2004, available at >> http://icad.org/websiteV2.0/Conferences/ICAD2004/posters/guillaume_etal.pdf) >> also using a gated paradigm found that very little of the sound is >> needed. >> >> Jim >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Sylvain Cl=E9ment [mailto:sylvain.clement@xxxxxxxx >>> Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 06:49 AM >>> To: AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx >>> Subject: How much is needed for sound identification ? >>> >>> Dear List members, >>> >>> We are currently running several experiments on environmental sounds >>> identification vs image identification. >>> >>> The literature in hearing seems to be quite poor whereas a lot of >>> work have been done in the visual domain. >>> >>> Does anybody have know studies that tried to measure how long of a >>> sound= >> >> >> >>> >is needed to get the identification of the sound ("it's a bird") >>> or get = >>> >> >>> >it's super-ordonate category ("it's an animal") ? >>>> >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance for any references. >>>> >>>> >>>> Sylvain Cl=E9ment >>>> Neuropsychology & Auditory Cognition Team >>>> Lille, France >>>> >>>> -- >Sylvain CLEMENT (MCF) >>>> JE Neuropsychologie et Cognition Auditive (JE 2497) >>>> UFR de Psychologie >>>> BP 60149, Universite Ch. de Gaulle Lille 3 >>>> Domaine universitaire "Pont de Bois" >>>> 59 653 Villeneuve d'ascq Cedex >>>> FRANCE >>>> >>>> tel : (03 20 41) 64 42 >>>> http://nca.recherche.univ-lille3.fr >>>> >>> >> >> ----=_vm_0011_W8530210911_5801_1189686045 >> Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> >> <html><br> >> Ballas (1993) measured identification of environmental sounds that >> were t= >> runcated to 700 ms. He found they were quite well identified, >> but h= >> e did not measure the time course - rather he measured reaction time, >> whi= >> ch varied quite a bit.<br><br><font size=3D"-1"><font >> size=3D"3"><b>Balla= >> s</b>, J. A. "Common Factors in the Identification of an Assortment >> of <b= >> >>> >Brief</b> Everyday <b>Sounds</b>." <b>J</b>. Exp. Psych.: Hum. >>> Percep. = >>> >> & Perf. 19 (1993): 250--26<br></font><br></font>In my >> environmental s= >> tudies I have tried to edit sounds so that they were the briefest >> possibl= >> e duration and still easily identifiable in pilot studies. I >> found = >> quite a range of times needed - some complex events, like a bowling >> ball = >> rolling down a lane, or a tree falling, have quite extended times >> courses= >> (> 3 s) needed to provide all the information >> necessary.<br><br>There= >> was a study involving time course of identification of environmental >> sce= >> nes that was presented at a conference. I am away from the >> office u= >> ntil next week, but I can provide the link then.<br><br>Brian >> Gygi<br><br= >> >>> ><br><br> >>> >> >> -- >> James A. Ballas, Ph.D. >> >> Naval Research Laboratory >> Code 5585 >> Washington, DC 20375-5337 >> tel: 202-404-7988 >> cell: 571-245-3019 >> fax: 202-767-1122 >> SIPR: ballas@xxxxxxxx >> >> >> Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:smime.p7s (eApp/CSOm) (001182D1) > > -- James A. Ballas, Ph.D. Naval Research Laboratory Code 5585 Washington, DC 20375-5337 tel: 202-404-7988 cell: 571-245-3019 fax: 202-767-1122 SIPR: ballas@xxxxxxxx --------------ms070603060406010700020406 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIINAzCC BDkwggOioAMCAQICAwPdKDANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADBdMQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzEYMBYGA1UE ChMPVS5TLiBHb3Zlcm5tZW50MQwwCgYDVQQLEwNEb0QxDDAKBgNVBAsTA1BLSTEYMBYGA1UE AxMPRE9EIEVNQUlMIENBLTExMB4XDTA2MDUxNjAwMDAwMFoXDTA5MDUxNTIzNTk1OVowezEL MAkGA1UEBhMCVVMxGDAWBgNVBAoTD1UuUy4gR292ZXJubWVudDEMMAoGA1UECxMDRG9EMQww CgYDVQQLEwNQS0kxDDAKBgNVBAsTA1VTTjEoMCYGA1UEAxMfQkFMTEFTLkpBTUVTLkFOVEhP TlkuMTIzMTM5ODk2ODCBnzANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOBjQAwgYkCgYEA1SwOS0yJr+nudD8U txjXUPy06WoFFGx4yYPNI5mQo+7Xli9dJ0NbZwJeQZz37oN7CbiIn2tmkTYGWFSGXHVN3fjK LpFqGBgiWXhyP709RSLjDXWFTllnpoyNuvC56LmBX2FHdRNrbzNMuU+4IFOmPJZpQuDjRdyL bebiCwX+O6ECAwEAAaOCAecwggHjMA4GA1UdDwEB/wQEAwIFIDAkBgNVHREEHTAbgRlqYW1l cy5iYWxsYXNAbnJsLm5hdnkubWlsMB8GA1UdIwQYMBaAFFMVA0XudKE0XWyGr3JmgW/prX8S MB0GA1UdDgQWBBRnqskhrA5nkwhLYh5zTUPfwMuw5DAWBgNVHSAEDzANMAsGCWCGSAFlAgEL CTBzBggrBgEFBQcBAQRnMGUwQQYIKwYBBQUHMAKGNWh0dHA6Ly9jcmwuY2hhbWIuZGlzYS5t aWwvZ2V0c2lnbj9ET0QlMjBFTUFJTCUyMENBLTExMCAGCCsGAQUFBzABhhRodHRwOi8vb2Nz cC5kaXNhLm1pbDCB3QYDVR0fBIHVMIHSMDqgOKA2hjRodHRwOi8vY3JsLmNoYW1iLmRpc2Eu bWlsL2dldGNybD9ET0QlMjBFTUFJTCUyMENBLTExMIGToIGQoIGNhoGKbGRhcDovL2NybC5j aGFtYi5kaXNhLm1pbC9jbiUzZERvRCUyMEVNQUlMJTIwQ0EtMTElMmNvdSUzZFBLSSUyY291 JTNkRG9EJTJjbyUzZFUuUy4lMjBHb3Zlcm5tZW50JTJjYyUzZFVTP2NlcnRpZmljYXRlcmV2 b2NhdGlvbmxpc3Q7YmluYXJ5MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4GBABu0g5EQvpgKgjPwZxEyKD3F wHphvjU9BZXuzYfWcZi1DhEz420Jv7V0kTrPdAg3c/gtOLueqmpIJA9aPy1ZYP95FFeP74Rb Dv1tbNZJBRnlsmF17WQtlIIRvwotT6TgR6Q49YnGQZVgRv/Eq3idEEwYFUkLVVVV2i4mF0h7 +GW+MIIEOjCCAyKgAwIBAgIBCjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUFADBbMQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzEYMBYG A1UEChMPVS5TLiBHb3Zlcm5tZW50MQwwCgYDVQQLEwNEb0QxDDAKBgNVBAsTA1BLSTEWMBQG A1UEAxMNRG9EIFJvb3QgQ0EgMjAeFw0wNjAxMDIxNjQ1NTVaFw0xMjAxMDExNjQ1NTVaMF0x CzAJBgNVBAYTAlVTMRgwFgYDVQQKEw9VLlMuIEdvdmVybm1lbnQxDDAKBgNVBAsTA0RvRDEM MAoGA1UECxMDUEtJMRgwFgYDVQQDEw9ET0QgRU1BSUwgQ0EtMTEwgZ8wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEB BQADgY0AMIGJAoGBAJt/S53u+fQFTZVCVscNoG3PEvOPdQ9esPH/+QYHoT2D6eyl8h/P/XDc n1Ol44MuGiOyJSqQu4+z1JTUlr4fIqFIqb2ZPH7TvLhTVBVBm+72CEP+GQ0PdPVPimEhCkbe mKEOll0EDrAglPgr2v/2UqpWGraX3F9emrd2goG5uLbzAgMBAAGjggGJMIIBhTAOBgNVHQ8B Af8EBAMCAYYwHwYDVR0jBBgwFoAUSXS7DF66ev4CVO97oMaVxgmAcJYwHQYDVR0OBBYEFFMV A0XudKE0XWyGr3JmgW/prX8SMAwGA1UdJAQFMAOAAQAwDwYDVR0TAQH/BAUwAwEB/zAwBgNV HSAEKTAnMAsGCWCGSAFlAgELBTALBglghkgBZQIBCwkwCwYJYIZIAWUCAQsKMIHhBgNVHR8E gdkwgdYwOqA4oDaGNGh0dHA6Ly9jcmwuY2hhbWIuZGlzYS5taWwvZ2V0Y3JsP0RvRCUyMFJv b3QlMjBDQSUyMDIwgZeggZSggZGGgY5sZGFwOi8vY3JsLmNoYW1iLmRpc2EubWlsL2NuJTNk RG9EJTIwUm9vdCUyMENBJTIwMiUyY291JTNkUEtJJTJjb3UlM2REb0QlMmNvJTNkVS5TLiUy MEdvdmVybm1lbnQlMmNjJTNkVVMlM2ZjZXJ0aWZpY2F0ZXJldm9jYXRpb25saXN0JTNiYmlu YXJ5MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4IBAQAVW1W5SW90jXnRBVlZW4It5eYWRoVLNs8eEDMDEi8Y ju5mTBYXms45LYHqFOQgMIOivDQ6LJucW+ciT79LiQqkSng8FFgWCMAWUT9k5HZSvGfv4vBx W7IZjr2Cvo4yEUCK97hh24oRNl+8J10ASIMgOjRKkdVukh/KmTbiIdSwmBg/WQRcj1A9C59j 2ITb8N8/UUPGppaMrMV1TWX1TzAkGcng6/dWUYODfe8vCm42sskZKew/ndIQg97x6F7o5Pvt wrSQsJ/DxXJdTuZx9SxGTCYqLgkyyaGd5wLB3PN9VqvRcab2h9L+ZN2juAkPxqJv88cZ2pKZ hTYjlcpunIHSMIIEhDCCA+2gAwIBAgIDA90hMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMF0xCzAJBgNVBAYT AlVTMRgwFgYDVQQKEw9VLlMuIEdvdmVybm1lbnQxDDAKBgNVBAsTA0RvRDEMMAoGA1UECxMD UEtJMRgwFgYDVQQDEw9ET0QgRU1BSUwgQ0EtMTEwHhcNMDYwNTE2MDAwMDAwWhcNMDkwNTE1 MjM1OTU5WjB7MQswCQYDVQQGEwJVUzEYMBYGA1UEChMPVS5TLiBHb3Zlcm5tZW50MQwwCgYD VQQLEwNEb0QxDDAKBgNVBAsTA1BLSTEMMAoGA1UECxMDVVNOMSgwJgYDVQQDEx9CQUxMQVMu SkFNRVMuQU5USE9OWS4xMjMxMzk4OTY4MIGfMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4GNADCBiQKBgQCX 2elO0JV2FGwBUTi2+g2T/G6EXT3JnkpqQX/lFKWK4x4xUuWvcHD8k+2sakXbURXSJZ8A7xvs GFCX+mZ2bOqLULRWvr0FVuPiw7Jol/AC7zeBMNYAWfHbG/7YxLj9cb6/n4yhYp87T3a+o2wu QVei+d4GGYXlD1xZSayu6NhUhwIDAQABo4ICMjCCAi4wDgYDVR0PAQH/BAQDAgbAMB8GA1Ud IwQYMBaAFFMVA0XudKE0XWyGr3JmgW/prX8SMB0GA1UdDgQWBBQZYwM/ximXmeNWf7BtjX3S 8Mg5vDAWBgNVHSAEDzANMAsGCWCGSAFlAgELCTBzBggrBgEFBQcBAQRnMGUwQQYIKwYBBQUH MAKGNWh0dHA6Ly9jcmwuY2hhbWIuZGlzYS5taWwvZ2V0c2lnbj9ET0QlMjBFTUFJTCUyMENB LTExMCAGCCsGAQUFBzABhhRodHRwOi8vb2NzcC5kaXNhLm1pbDCB3QYDVR0fBIHVMIHSMDqg OKA2hjRodHRwOi8vY3JsLmNoYW1iLmRpc2EubWlsL2dldGNybD9ET0QlMjBFTUFJTCUyMENB LTExMIGToIGQoIGNhoGKbGRhcDovL2NybC5jaGFtYi5kaXNhLm1pbC9jbiUzZERvRCUyMEVN QUlMJTIwQ0EtMTElMmNvdSUzZFBLSSUyY291JTNkRG9EJTJjbyUzZFUuUy4lMjBHb3Zlcm5t ZW50JTJjYyUzZFVTP2NlcnRpZmljYXRlcmV2b2NhdGlvbmxpc3Q7YmluYXJ5MCkGA1UdJQQi MCAGCisGAQQBgjcUAgIGCCsGAQUFBwMEBggrBgEFBQcDAjBEBgNVHREEPTA7gRlqYW1lcy5i YWxsYXNAbnJsLm5hdnkubWlsoB4GCisGAQQBgjcUAgOgEAwOMTIzMTM5ODk2OEBtaWwwDQYJ KoZIhvcNAQEFBQADgYEAkR4PKxZpBBB2A6y7R2FKBZbZMQVi68We4GmMc+3sPr0TGWdseNtx ItdJoN4ViYMUpwhwr5PhkAwCEaV8PH758cCjxvjHT040IRSgC5hq2uYY5OKywBAMacmp0Im8 D5Rnl5zEjEYi7LYZaVRxsRvfEeyB7i8/CdQU5jg7+xCPwR0xggKrMIICpwIBATBkMF0xCzAJ BgNVBAYTAlVTMRgwFgYDVQQKEw9VLlMuIEdvdmVybm1lbnQxDDAKBgNVBAsTA0RvRDEMMAoG A1UECxMDUEtJMRgwFgYDVQQDEw9ET0QgRU1BSUwgQ0EtMTECAwPdITAJBgUrDgMCGgUAoIIB nTAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcNAQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0wNzA5MTcxMjQ0 MjRaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBQU0lZiJDn+e3eh9IOs4k/TS9NGRzBSBgkqhkiG9w0BCQ8x RTBDMAoGCCqGSIb3DQMHMA4GCCqGSIb3DQMCAgIAgDANBggqhkiG9w0DAgIBQDAHBgUrDgMC BzANBggqhkiG9w0DAgIBKDBzBgkrBgEEAYI3EAQxZjBkMF0xCzAJBgNVBAYTAlVTMRgwFgYD VQQKEw9VLlMuIEdvdmVybm1lbnQxDDAKBgNVBAsTA0RvRDEMMAoGA1UECxMDUEtJMRgwFgYD VQQDEw9ET0QgRU1BSUwgQ0EtMTECAwPdKDB1BgsqhkiG9w0BCRACCzFmoGQwXTELMAkGA1UE BhMCVVMxGDAWBgNVBAoTD1UuUy4gR292ZXJubWVudDEMMAoGA1UECxMDRG9EMQwwCgYDVQQL EwNQS0kxGDAWBgNVBAMTD0RPRCBFTUFJTCBDQS0xMQIDA90oMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUABIGA B7Hh4nCZmBHms7d9AQf47L6KpvTVnqyIw01IcDPEyIuIfYkhmRlnIsqTUvtg5pL+EPTzJ3lk LIRlEbr+xN2bpOoHs+Czg5ty+ZdM9qKZ+6gk4JhomqYubBWBtwWc14iWjOHL0STq8atPpwxj q9I6Esd7Vjo5BozG8wnv4ueHIcsAAAAAAAA= --------------ms070603060406010700020406--