Re: Absolute pitch discussion (Martin Braun )

Subject: Re: Absolute pitch discussion
From:    Martin Braun  <nombraun@xxxxxxxx>
Date:    Sun, 9 Sep 2007 19:36:35 +0200

Dear Diana and others, Thank you. Yes, we have computational models of relative pitch (RP), but not yet physiological ones. I must say I am still quite impressed by your computational model of octave circularity and chroma from 1969. The physiological model that has emerged during the past five years is almost congruent with your early suggestion. As to interval equivalence, the basis of RP, I cannot see the possibility of a similar "happy end". You see, RP listeners can spontaneously recognize a major third, even if it appears in previously unheard sound frequencies, such as in C4 + 50 Cent followed by E4 + 50 Cent. Models of "learning" neural networks that are based on frequency maps cannot account for this ability. As to Gerald Langner's recent suggestions of a possible "pitch helix" in the ventral nucleus of the lateral lemniscus, we first have to wait for a publication of data. Further, even if confirmed, such a structure could - in my view - not contribute to the extraction of interval categories. It is also worth noting that Zhang and Kelly (2006) did not even find periodotopic order in this nucleus in the rat. References: Langner G, Simonis C, Braun S, and Ochse M. Evidence for a pitch helix in the ventral nucleus of the lateral lemniscus in the gerbil. Assoc Res Otolaryngol Abstr 26: 173, 2003. Langner G, Braun S, Simonis C, Benso C, and Cant N. New evidence for a pitch helix in the ventral nucleus of the lateral lemniscus in the gerbil. Asoc Res Otolaryngol Abstr 29: 259-260, 2006. Zhang H., Kelly J.B. (2006) Responses of neurons in the rat's ventral nucleus of the lateral lemniscus to amplitude-modulated tones. J Neurophysiol. 96, 2905-2914. Martin --------------------------------------------------------------------- Martin Braun Neuroscience of Music S-671 95 Klässbol Sweden web site: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Diana Deutsch" <ddeutsch@xxxxxxxx> To: <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2007 7:58 PM Subject: Re: Absolute pitch discussion Dear Martin et al, Concerning your statement: > we do not even have the faintest trace of a hypothesis how a brain > could accomplish RP. please see Deutsch, D. Music recognition. Psychological Review , 1969, 76, 300-309. [PDF Document] for a proposed neural network that would accomplish recognition of musical intervals and chords under transposition and inversion, together with a discussion of the relevant neurophysiological evidence that existed at that time. See also my chapter 'The processing of pitch combinations' in Deutsch, D. (Ed.) The Psychology of Music. 2nd Edition. San Diego: Academic Press, 1999 which revisits this model with updated references, together with the chapter 'Neural nets, temporal composites, and tonality' by Jamshed Bharucha in the same volume. Further at the neurophysiological level, please also see the work of the Gerald Langner on the ventral nucleus of the lateral lemniscus. Diana ---------------------------------------------- Professor Diana Deutsch Department of Psychology University of California, San Diego 9500 Gilman Dr. #0109 La Jolla, CA 92093-0109, USA 858-453-1558 (tel) 858-453-4763 (fax)

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Electrical Engineering Dept., Columbia University