Subject: Re: Musical vs everyday listening From: Branka ZEI <Branka.Zei@xxxxxxxx> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 22:28:38 +0100 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>Kevin said: >Physical systems provide the stream of data -- it will be the mind >that will segment and organize it. Thank you Kevin for reminding us of this most fundamental epistemological principal that no physicist (worthy of this name) would deny. Physics is considered to be one of those pure sciences that study the material reality and are based on "objectively" found facts. Yet, the only thing a physicist would say about the "reality" is that they have a model and they may also have a method to test it (or invalidate it) or that they do not have a model and cannot say anything. That's all. What the material world "IS IN REALITY" is irrelevant and finally uninteresting for his function of a physicist. Unfortunately this fundamental epistemological position is too often ingnored by those who believe that the identity of an object resides in its inherent characteristics and not in the way our cognitive system treats the sensorial input. The latter is obviously related to the capacities of the organ of perception (or the physicist's method of data collection. Kevin said: > I haven't read a description / >definition of what hearing or music is. Jean Piaget (a biologist and above all an epistemologist) defined perception as a cognitive act. He defined perception as " l'organisation immédiate des données sensorielles". Once you accept this, you obviously take into account 'cross-modal' structuring of information that gives rise to differentiations of meanings or qualities etc. The result is that the perceived portion of material reality is always a cognitive construct. What a Beethoven fan will hear by listening to rap music may be very different from what a rapper would hear by listening to the same piece of music. Best to all. Branka ________________________________________ Dr. Branka Zei Pollermann Psychologue Psychiatrie de Liaison Hôpitaux Universitaires de Genève 51 Bvd. De la Cluse, 1205 Genève tél. : 0041 22 382 48 81 Portable : 0041 79 203 92 17 ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. **********************************************************************