Subject: Re: Pitch learning From: Linda Seltzer <lseltzer@xxxxxxxx> Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 14:39:37 -0500 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>I am going to use some terms from musical analysis in a nonstandard way. I am using these terms as musical terms and not as technical terms in the field of psychology or perception, because I do not know whether or how this paradigm is matched to perception. With respect to musical form we speak of background and foreground. Using such terms in this discussion, one could state that the presence of perfect fourths and fifths and other intervals of just intonation are in the background. The deviations in intonation are in the foreground. It's obvious that many cultures rely on some exact ratio intervals. A deep understanding of the musical creativity and artistic expression will come from appreciating the foreground. Too many ethnomusicologists in the old days reduced non-Western melodies to Western scales and even Western notation, and the result was that non-Western musics seemed primitive. An inexact "octave" expresses something different from an ocave. > Dear Pierre and others, > >> During my studies some time ago I read in a respected source that there >> are gamelans in which even the octave is missing. > > There must have been a misunderstanding in this. A gamelan ensemble > without > the octave as the backbone of all tuning is a red herring. What occurs are > deviations from the mathematically exact octave, up to about +/- 30 Cent. > In > some gamelan cultures, such as in Bali, octave deviations are tuned on > purpose to reach a shimmering sound caused by the "beats" resulting from > this tuning practice. > > We should also note that all gamelan scales that have ever been found are > fairly well understood in terms of physics and hearing physiology. Not > much > mystery here. > > Martin > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > Martin Braun > Neuroscience of Music > S-671 95 Klässbol > Sweden > web site: http://w1.570.telia.com/~u57011259/index.htm > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pierre Divenyi" <pdivenyi@xxxxxxxx> > To: <AUDITORY@xxxxxxxx> > Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 6:49 AM > Subject: Re: Pitch learning > > >>I think that the most challenging instrument to any pitch theories is the >>gamelan ensemble: partials produced by each metal bloc are inharmonic and >>the (supposed) fundamental frequencies of the bloc series define an >>inharmonic scale that varies from gamelan to gamelan, except that they >>never include simple harmonic ratios. During my studies some time ago I >>read in a respected source that there are gamelans in which even the >> octave >>is missing. >> >> Pierre >> >