Subject: Re: Pitch learning From: Susan Allen <susie@xxxxxxxx> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2007 22:41:01 -0800 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>It is astonishing to me that all of you are talking about western scales and octaves! This is not the music of the world! This is colonial music, discovered in the West.... The WORLD of music does not follow Pythagorean intervals! There are many more notes! FORGET perfect pitch - it only has to do with relative pitch on the piano keyboard - within the Western (colonial) paradigm! Susan Allen PhD http://music.calarts.edu/~susie On Feb 27, 2007, at 10:03 PM, Annabel Cohen wrote: > Dear Martin and Stewart and others: > > I am willing to concede that sensitivity to overlapping harmonics may > not be the basis of the musical and octave sensitivity of monkeys; > what remains unclear to me is whether there is an "octave circular > pitch processor" or rather than a "small-integer / periodicity- > sensitive processor". > > If there is only an "octave circular pitch processing" to account for > octave generalization, one would predict performance in monkeys on > transpositions to the perfect fifth (ratio 3/2 = 7 semitones up) to > be as poor as performance on transposition to the tritone (half > octave = 6 semitones). A study including the perfect fifth > transposition has not been carried out to the best of my knowledge. > If performance were superior for the perfect fifth, the "octave > processor" theory would be incomplete. > > How also does one explain the monkey's superior performance on tonal > as opposed to atonal melodies, when tonal melodies are characterized > by tones related by small integer ratios (though typically not > octaves) as compared to tone relations in atonal melodies. > > Annabel > > On 24 Feb 2007 at 0:43, Martin Braun wrote: > >> Dear Annabel, Stew, and others, >> >> Annabel Cohen wrote: >> >> "The evidence in this paper [ >> http://web.telia.com/~u57011259/Wright.htm ] for octave >> generalization for tonal melodies by rhesus monkeys is impressive, >> however, whether this reflects something special about sensitivity >> to the octave (chroma) rather than sensitivity to the overtone >> series or periodicity is still not clear from this study." >> >> Sorry, it IS clear from this study. The authors reported that >> generalization over the distance of two octaves is even stronger >> than that over the distance of one octave. This finding definitely >> rules out the possibility that the monkeys generalized according to >> similarities in the sound spectrum (harmonics). The only remaining >> possibility is that the monkeys, the same as humans, have an octave >> circular pitch processing, which provides the basis for a chroma >> percept. >> >> Martin >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - Martin Braun Neuroscience of Music S-671 95 Klässbol Sweden web >> site: http://w1.570.telia.com/~u57011259/index.htm > > > ------- End of forwarded message -------Annabel J. Cohen, Ph. D. > Department of Psychology > University of Prince Edward Island > Charlottetown, P.E.I. C1A 4P3 CANADA > e:mail acohen@xxxxxxxx > phone: (902) 628-4325 office; (902) 628-4331 lab > fax: (902) 628-4359 > www.upei.ca/~musicog > www.upei.ca/~cmtc