Subject: sometimes behave so strangely From: Diana Deutsch <ddeutsch@xxxxxxxx> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 11:47:53 -0800 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>--Apple-Mail-1-987396418 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes; format=flowed Dear List, Many thanks to all who have commented so incisively on =91Sometimes =20 behave so strangely=92 =96 the feedback was great. Including those who =20= wrote to me privately, I received over 40 responses =96 most with =20 multiple comments and questions. I=92ll reply to all individually over =20= the next couple of days, but thought I should make a few general points. A number of people have pointed out that the timing characteristics =20= of the pattern could be important. I agree =96 the pattern has an =20 emphatic rhythm, and the repetition of this rhythm may help to induce =20= listening in =91music mode=92. Also, in a study in progress we=92re = looking =20 at the effect of the durations of the pauses between repetitions, and =20= it appears that lengthening these pauses reduces the effect - or at =20 least slows down its development=96 the formal experiment has yet to be =20= completed. And it=92s true that I intentionally configured the pauses =20= in the published example so that the entire sequence of repetitions =20 should be metrically coherent. About the intonation contours, what I had intended in saying that =20 they were =91flattened in the subject=92s rendition=92 is that, in the =20= subject=92s rendition, the contour of each syllable spans a smaller =20 range in terms of f0 than it does in the original =96 considerably =20 smaller for some syllables. The contours of the syllables in the =20 original are not flat =96 some of them, such as for =91some=92 and =91so=92= =20 span a large range =96 but they become flat when listeners who hear =20 the effect as music repeat what they hear. The fact that the contours in my original are not flat has led to =20 some small disagreement as to what the =91notes=92 actually are. = Although =20 the large majority hear the phrase as I notate it, some people argue =20 that the first syllable =91some=92 should be notated a semitone lower, =20= and others argue that the last syllable =91ly=92 should be notated a =20 semitone lower (see for example, Linda Seltzer=92s posting). There is =20= in fact no =91correct=92 answer, because the pattern of f0s is = consistent =20 with a number of interpretations. (This is true even taking =20 amplitudes into account.) It may well be that most of us =91opt=92 for =20= the phrase as I notate it because it enables an interpretation in =20 terms of a well-formed tonal melody. I=92m flattered that Eliot Handelman writes that =91Diana actually IS = =20 singing=92, but can assure you that before I noticed this effect in my =20= commentary on my CD =91Musical illusions and paradoxes=92 neither I nor =20= anyone else believed I was singing. And in one experiment described =20 in the ASA/ASJ meetings, we had subjects listen to the phrase ten =20 times, and each time they notated what they heard on a five point =20 scale from =91exactly like speech=92 to =91exactly like singing=92 . The = =20 subjects overwhelmingly chose =91speech=92 on the first iteration, but = by =20 the tenth they had swung over to =91singing=92. Many thanks again, Diana ------------------------------------------------------ Professor Diana Deutsch Department of Psychology University of California, San Diego 9500 Gilman Dr. #0109 La Jolla, CA 92093-0109, USA 858-453-1558 (tel) 858-453-4763 (fax) http://www-psy.ucsd.edu/~ddeutsch http://www.philomel.com --Apple-Mail-1-987396418 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 <HTML><BODY style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; = -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><P class=3D"MsoBodyText3" = align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align: left;">Dear List,<O:P></O:P></P><P = class=3D"MsoBodyText3" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align: = left;">=A0<O:P></O:P></P><P class=3D"MsoBodyText3" align=3D"left" = style=3D"text-align: left;">Many thanks to all who have commented so = incisively on =91Sometimes behave so strangely=92 =96 the feedback was = great.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">=A0 </SPAN>Including those who = wrote to me privately, I received over 40 responses =96 most with = multiple comments and questions. I=92ll reply to all individually over = the next couple of days, but thought I should make a few general points. = <O:P></O:P></P><P class=3D"MsoBodyText3" align=3D"left" = style=3D"text-align: left;">=A0A number of people have pointed out that = the timing characteristics of the pattern could be important. I agree =96 = the pattern has an emphatic rhythm, and the repetition of this rhythm = may help to induce listening in =91music mode=92. Also, in a study in = progress we=92re looking at the effect of the durations of the pauses = between repetitions, and it appears that lengthening these pauses = reduces the effect - or at least slows down its development=96 the = formal experiment has yet to be completed. And it=92s true that I = intentionally configured the pauses in the published example so that the = entire sequence of repetitions should be metrically coherent.</P><P = class=3D"MsoBodyText3" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align: left;">=A0About= the intonation contours, what I had intended in saying that they were = =91flattened in the subject=92s rendition=92 is that, in the subject=92s = rendition, the contour of each syllable spans a smaller range in terms = of f0 than it does in the original =96 considerably smaller for some = syllables. The contours of the syllables in the original are not flat =96 = some of them, such as for =91some=92 and =91so=92 span a<SPAN style=3D"">=A0= </SPAN>large range =96 but they become flat when listeners who hear the = effect as music repeat what they hear.</P><P class=3D"MsoBodyText3" = align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align: left;">=A0The fact that the contours = in my original are not flat has led to some small disagreement as to = what the =91notes=92 actually are. Although the large majority hear the = phrase as I notate it, some people argue that the first syllable =91some=92= should be notated a semitone lower, and others argue that the last = syllable =91ly=92 should be notated a semitone lower (see for example, = Linda Seltzer=92s posting). There is in fact no =91correct=92 answer, = because the pattern of f0s is consistent with a number of = interpretations. (This is true even taking amplitudes into account.) It = may well be that most of us =91opt=92 for the phrase as I notate it = because it enables an interpretation in terms of a well-formed tonal = melody.</P><P class=3D"MsoBodyText3" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align: = left;">=A0I=92m flattered that<SPAN style=3D"">=A0 </SPAN>Eliot = Handelman writes that =91Diana actually IS singing=92, but can assure = you that before I noticed this effect in my commentary on my CD =91Musical= illusions and paradoxes=92 neither I nor anyone else believed I was = singing. And in one experiment described in the ASA/ASJ meetings, we had = subjects listen to the phrase ten times, and each time they notated what = they heard on a five point scale from =91exactly like speech=92 to = =91exactly like singing=92 . The subjects overwhelmingly chose =91speech=92= on the first iteration, but by the tenth they had swung over to = =91singing=92.</P><P class=3D"MsoBodyText3" align=3D"left" = style=3D"text-align: left;">=A0Many thanks again,</P><P = class=3D"MsoBodyText3" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align: = left;">=A0Diana</P><P class=3D"MsoBodyText3" align=3D"left" = style=3D"text-align: = left;">=A0</P>------------------------------------------------------<BR><B= R><DIV> <SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: = separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: = Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; = text-align: auto; -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: = 0px; -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; = white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN = class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; = border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: = normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; = -khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; = -apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; = white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>Professor = Diana Deutsch</DIV><DIV>Department of Psychology=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0</DIV><DIV>University of California, San = Diego</DIV><DIV>9500 Gilman Dr. #0109=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0=A0</DIV><DIV>= La Jolla, CA 92093-0109, USA</DIV><DIV><BR = class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>858-453-1558 = (tel)</DIV><DIV>858-453-4763 (fax)</DIV><DIV><BR = class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><A = href=3D"http://www-psy.ucsd.edu/~ddeutsch">http://www-psy.ucsd.edu/~ddeuts= ch</A></DIV><DIV><A = href=3D"http://www.philomel.com">http://www.philomel.com</A></DIV><DIV><BR= class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR = class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR = class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR = class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN></SPAN> = </DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>= --Apple-Mail-1-987396418--