Subject: Re: sometimes behave so strangely From: Valter Ciocca <vciocca@xxxxxxxx> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 09:52:38 +0800 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>Dear Diana (and List), Just curious. Did you compare English and tonal language speakers on both the English sentence and an equivalent tonal language sentence? On the basis of Yi-Wen's observations (and my expectations) a group difference should be observed only with the Tonal language sentence. Best, Valter >Dear Valter (and List), > > >I've compared tone language speakers with nontone language speakers, >expecting to find a difference, and strangely (no pun intended) no >difference emerged. But I'm intending to run very large groups, just >to make sure. > >Cheers, > >Diana > > > > > > >On Dec 13, 2006, at 12:10 AM, Valter Ciocca wrote: > >>Dear Diana, Al and list, >> >>.... >>>You also raise the point that the transformation of the phrase >>>from speech to song endures - so that when people listen again to >>>the full sentence, I appear to burst into song. This , to my mind, >>>is a particularly puzzling aspect of the effect. People have told >>>me that the effect is still present, unattenuated, even months >>>later - and this was certainly my experience. As you point out, >>>perhaps the most important question raised by this demonstration >>>is why people don't always hear speech as song. After all, the >>>vowel components of words are harmonic complexes - yet the pitch >>>characteristics of speech are usually suppressed in perception. >>>... >> >>true, unless you speak a tonal language, in which case you will >>focus on pitch patterns in order to figure out the meaning of >>words. In fact, I wonder whether speakers of tonal languages might >>be more resistant to transforming pitch into singing since for them >>focusing on pitch patterns has become part of the speech schema. >>Valter >> >>> >>>--------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>>Professor Diana Deutsch >>>Department of Psychology >>>University of California, San Diego >>>9500 Gilman Dr. #0109 >>>La Jolla, CA 92093-0109, USA >>> >>>858-453-1558 (tel) >>>858-453-4763 (fax) >>> >>>http://www-psy.ucsd.edu/~ddeutsch >>>http://www.philomel.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>On Dec 12, 2006, at 10:08 PM, Al Bregman wrote: >>> >>>>Dear Diana (and List), >>>> >>>>Yes indeed! The repetitions do seem to comvert spoken speech to singing. >>>> >>>>I wonder whether your phenomenon isn't related to that of "semantic >>>>satiation", in which a word that is repeated over and over tends to >>>>lose its meaning and to be perceived as a sequence of sounds. The >>>>meaning is not lost in an all-or-nothing fashion, but tends to get >>>>weaker and weaker. (See >>>>.http://www.soc.hawaii.edu/leonj/499s99/yamauchi/semantic.htm) >>>> >>>>In the case of your demonstration there is a strongly modulated F0 >>>>(intonation contour) over the phrase. It may be that when we hear >>>>ordinary speech, which contains pitch modulation (an acoustic >>>>phenomenon that is present in both music and speech), the speech and >>>>musical schemas are both evoked and compete with one another. >>>>However, when the cues for speech are dominant (i.e., continuous and >>>>non-repeating modulation of F0, without pausing on particular >>>>pitches), the musical interpretation is suppressed. But when the >>>>phrase is repeated many times, a satiation and weakening of the speech >>>>interpretation occurs (as in semantic satiation), thereby allowing the >>>>musical interpretation to become more dominant. Of course it doesn't >>>>become completely dominant, or else we wouldn't hear speech at all. >>>>Rather there is an intermediate form of activation in which we hear >>>>both speech and music (i.e., singing). >>>> >>>>In your demonstration, immediately after hearing the phase as melodic, >>>>when we listen to the whole sentence again, we still maintain an >>>>association between the phrase and the melodic interpretation. I >>>>wonder how long this aftereffect lasts. >>>> >>>>Your demonstration raises the fascinating question of why we don't >>>>ALWAYS hear speech as singing. It may be that persons with absolute >>>>pitch come closer to this than the rest of us do, or at least can turn >>>>it on when they want to. A number of years ago, I asked Poppy Crum, a >>>>graduate student of mine who had absolute pitch, whether she could >>>>assign musical note values to my intonation pattern as I said a >>>>phrase. She replied that this was easy, and gave me a sequence of >>>>note names. >>>> >>>>Whatever the explanation of your phenomenon, it is truly interesting, >>>>and raises some challenging questions. I hope you yourself, or some >>>>of our colleagues, will be able to shed light on the phenomenon >>>>through a series of analytical experiments. >>>> >>>>All the best, >>>> >>>>Al >>>> >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>Albert S. Bregman, Emeritus Professor >>>>Psychology Department, McGill University >>>>1205 Docteur Penfield Avenue >>>>Montreal, QC, Canada H3A 1B1. >>>> Tel: (514) 484-2592, (514) 398-6103 >>>> Fax: (514) 484-2592 >>>>www.psych.mcgill.ca/labs/auditory/Home.html >>>>------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>On 12/12/06, Diana Deutsch <ddeutsch@xxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>Dear list, >>>>> >>>>> I've had a number of requests for the sound demonstration I >>>>>presented at >>>>>the recent ASA meeting in Honolulu, in which the spoken phrase 'sometimes >>>>>behave so strangely' following several repetitions, appears convincingly >>>>>to be sung rather than spoken - though there is no musical context and no >>>>>physical transformation of the sound. This demonstration, together with >>>>>spoken commentary, is on my CD 'Phantom Words and Other Curiosities' >>>>>(available from Philomel Records - http://www.philomel.com). >>>>> >>>>>The sound demonstration is also posted on the website: >>>>> >>>>>http://philomel.com/phantom_words/description.html#sometimes >>>>> >>>>>and it's described in the booklet accompanying the CD, which is posted at: >>>>> >>>>>http://philomel.com/phantom_words/booklet/ >>>>> >>>>>Happy Holidays! >>>>> >>>>>Diana Deutsch >>>>> >>>>>------------------------------------------------------ >>>> >>>>-- >> >> >>-- >>Valter Ciocca, PhD >>Associate Professor >>Division of Speech & Hearing Sciences >>University of Hong Kong >>Hong Kong SAR, China >> >>phone: 852 28590581 >>fax: 852 25590060 -- Valter Ciocca, PhD Associate Professor Division of Speech & Hearing Sciences University of Hong Kong Hong Kong SAR, China phone: 852 28590581 fax: 852 25590060