Subject: Re: sometimes behave so strangely From: poppy crum <pcrum2@xxxxxxxx> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 15:25:43 -0800 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>Dear Diana, Interestingly, and as Al Bregman predicted, my perception of the phrase does not change. I do have absolute pitch, and am guessing the change heard by most is similar to the default heard by myself and others who share a similar processing quirk. In any case, non-ap members of my lab enjoyed it very much. Best, - Poppy Crum. --- Diana Deutsch <ddeutsch@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > Dear Valter (and List), > > > I've compared tone language speakers with nontone language speakers, > > expecting to find a difference, and strangely (no pun intended) no > difference emerged. But I'm intending to run very large groups, just > > to make sure. > > Cheers, > > Diana > > > > > > > On Dec 13, 2006, at 12:10 AM, Valter Ciocca wrote: > > > Dear Diana, Al and list, > > > > .... > >> You also raise the point that the transformation of the phrase > >> from speech to song endures - so that when people listen again to > > >> the full sentence, I appear to burst into song. This , to my mind, > > >> is a particularly puzzling aspect of the effect. People have told > > >> me that the effect is still present, unattenuated, even months > >> later - and this was certainly my experience. As you point out, > >> perhaps the most important question raised by this demonstration > >> is why people don't always hear speech as song. After all, the > >> vowel components of words are harmonic complexes - yet the pitch > > >> characteristics of speech are usually suppressed in perception. > >> ... > > > > true, unless you speak a tonal language, in which case you will > > focus on pitch patterns in order to figure out the meaning of > > words. In fact, I wonder whether speakers of tonal languages might > > > be more resistant to transforming pitch into singing since for them > > > focusing on pitch patterns has become part of the speech schema. > > Valter > > > > > >> > >> --------------------------------------------- > >> > >> > >> Professor Diana Deutsch > >> Department of Psychology > >> University of California, San Diego > >> 9500 Gilman Dr. #0109 > >> La Jolla, CA 92093-0109, USA > >> > >> 858-453-1558 (tel) > >> 858-453-4763 (fax) > >> > >> http://www-psy.ucsd.edu/~ddeutsch > >> http://www.philomel.com > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Dec 12, 2006, at 10:08 PM, Al Bregman wrote: > >> > >>> Dear Diana (and List), > >>> > >>> Yes indeed! The repetitions do seem to comvert spoken speech to > >>> singing. > >>> > >>> I wonder whether your phenomenon isn't related to that of > "semantic > >>> satiation", in which a word that is repeated over and over tends > to > >>> lose its meaning and to be perceived as a sequence of sounds. > The > >>> meaning is not lost in an all-or-nothing fashion, but tends to > get > >>> weaker and weaker. (See > >>> .http://www.soc.hawaii.edu/leonj/499s99/yamauchi/semantic.htm) > >>> > >>> In the case of your demonstration there is a strongly modulated > F0 > >>> (intonation contour) over the phrase. It may be that when we > hear > >>> ordinary speech, which contains pitch modulation (an acoustic > >>> phenomenon that is present in both music and speech), the speech > and > >>> musical schemas are both evoked and compete with one another. > >>> However, when the cues for speech are dominant (i.e., continuous > and > >>> non-repeating modulation of F0, without pausing on particular > >>> pitches), the musical interpretation is suppressed. But when the > >>> phrase is repeated many times, a satiation and weakening of the > >>> speech > >>> interpretation occurs (as in semantic satiation), thereby > >>> allowing the > >>> musical interpretation to become more dominant. Of course it > >>> doesn't > >>> become completely dominant, or else we wouldn't hear speech at > all. > >>> Rather there is an intermediate form of activation in which we > hear > >>> both speech and music (i.e., singing). > >>> > >>> In your demonstration, immediately after hearing the phase as > >>> melodic, > >>> when we listen to the whole sentence again, we still maintain an > >>> association between the phrase and the melodic interpretation. I > >>> wonder how long this aftereffect lasts. > >>> > >>> Your demonstration raises the fascinating question of why we > don't > >>> ALWAYS hear speech as singing. It may be that persons with > absolute > >>> pitch come closer to this than the rest of us do, or at least can > > >>> turn > >>> it on when they want to. A number of years ago, I asked Poppy > >>> Crum, a > >>> graduate student of mine who had absolute pitch, whether she > could > >>> assign musical note values to my intonation pattern as I said a > >>> phrase. She replied that this was easy, and gave me a sequence > of > >>> note names. > >>> > >>> Whatever the explanation of your phenomenon, it is truly > >>> interesting, > >>> and raises some challenging questions. I hope you yourself, or > some > >>> of our colleagues, will be able to shed light on the phenomenon > >>> through a series of analytical experiments. > >>> > >>> All the best, > >>> > >>> Al > >>> > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> Albert S. Bregman, Emeritus Professor > >>> Psychology Department, McGill University > >>> 1205 Docteur Penfield Avenue > >>> Montreal, QC, Canada H3A 1B1. > >>> Tel: (514) 484-2592, (514) 398-6103 > >>> Fax: (514) 484-2592 > >>> www.psych.mcgill.ca/labs/auditory/Home.html > >>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On 12/12/06, Diana Deutsch <ddeutsch@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > >>>> Dear list, > >>>> > >>>> I've had a number of requests for the sound demonstration I > >>>> presented at > >>>> the recent ASA meeting in Honolulu, in which the spoken phrase > > >>>> 'sometimes > >>>> behave so strangely' following several repetitions, appears > >>>> convincingly > >>>> to be sung rather than spoken - though there is no musical > >>>> context and no > >>>> physical transformation of the sound. This demonstration, > >>>> together with > >>>> spoken commentary, is on my CD 'Phantom Words and Other > >>>> Curiosities' > >>>> (available from Philomel Records - http://www.philomel.com). > >>>> > >>>> The sound demonstration is also posted on the website: > >>>> > >>>> http://philomel.com/phantom_words/description.html#sometimes > >>>> > >>>> and it's described in the booklet accompanying the CD, which is > > >>>> posted at: > >>>> > >>>> http://philomel.com/phantom_words/booklet/ > >>>> > >>>> Happy Holidays! > >>>> > >>>> Diana Deutsch > >>>> > >>>> ------------------------------------------------------ > >>> > >>> -- > > > > > > -- > === message truncated ===