Subject: Re: sometimes behave so strangely From: Diana Deutsch <ddeutsch@xxxxxxxx> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 11:54:19 -0800 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>Dear Valter (and List), I've compared tone language speakers with nontone language speakers, expecting to find a difference, and strangely (no pun intended) no difference emerged. But I'm intending to run very large groups, just to make sure. Cheers, Diana On Dec 13, 2006, at 12:10 AM, Valter Ciocca wrote: > Dear Diana, Al and list, > > .... >> You also raise the point that the transformation of the phrase >> from speech to song endures - so that when people listen again to >> the full sentence, I appear to burst into song. This , to my mind, >> is a particularly puzzling aspect of the effect. People have told >> me that the effect is still present, unattenuated, even months >> later - and this was certainly my experience. As you point out, >> perhaps the most important question raised by this demonstration >> is why people don't always hear speech as song. After all, the >> vowel components of words are harmonic complexes - yet the pitch >> characteristics of speech are usually suppressed in perception. >> ... > > true, unless you speak a tonal language, in which case you will > focus on pitch patterns in order to figure out the meaning of > words. In fact, I wonder whether speakers of tonal languages might > be more resistant to transforming pitch into singing since for them > focusing on pitch patterns has become part of the speech schema. > Valter > > >> >> --------------------------------------------- >> >> >> Professor Diana Deutsch >> Department of Psychology >> University of California, San Diego >> 9500 Gilman Dr. #0109 >> La Jolla, CA 92093-0109, USA >> >> 858-453-1558 (tel) >> 858-453-4763 (fax) >> >> http://www-psy.ucsd.edu/~ddeutsch >> http://www.philomel.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Dec 12, 2006, at 10:08 PM, Al Bregman wrote: >> >>> Dear Diana (and List), >>> >>> Yes indeed! The repetitions do seem to comvert spoken speech to >>> singing. >>> >>> I wonder whether your phenomenon isn't related to that of "semantic >>> satiation", in which a word that is repeated over and over tends to >>> lose its meaning and to be perceived as a sequence of sounds. The >>> meaning is not lost in an all-or-nothing fashion, but tends to get >>> weaker and weaker. (See >>> .http://www.soc.hawaii.edu/leonj/499s99/yamauchi/semantic.htm) >>> >>> In the case of your demonstration there is a strongly modulated F0 >>> (intonation contour) over the phrase. It may be that when we hear >>> ordinary speech, which contains pitch modulation (an acoustic >>> phenomenon that is present in both music and speech), the speech and >>> musical schemas are both evoked and compete with one another. >>> However, when the cues for speech are dominant (i.e., continuous and >>> non-repeating modulation of F0, without pausing on particular >>> pitches), the musical interpretation is suppressed. But when the >>> phrase is repeated many times, a satiation and weakening of the >>> speech >>> interpretation occurs (as in semantic satiation), thereby >>> allowing the >>> musical interpretation to become more dominant. Of course it >>> doesn't >>> become completely dominant, or else we wouldn't hear speech at all. >>> Rather there is an intermediate form of activation in which we hear >>> both speech and music (i.e., singing). >>> >>> In your demonstration, immediately after hearing the phase as >>> melodic, >>> when we listen to the whole sentence again, we still maintain an >>> association between the phrase and the melodic interpretation. I >>> wonder how long this aftereffect lasts. >>> >>> Your demonstration raises the fascinating question of why we don't >>> ALWAYS hear speech as singing. It may be that persons with absolute >>> pitch come closer to this than the rest of us do, or at least can >>> turn >>> it on when they want to. A number of years ago, I asked Poppy >>> Crum, a >>> graduate student of mine who had absolute pitch, whether she could >>> assign musical note values to my intonation pattern as I said a >>> phrase. She replied that this was easy, and gave me a sequence of >>> note names. >>> >>> Whatever the explanation of your phenomenon, it is truly >>> interesting, >>> and raises some challenging questions. I hope you yourself, or some >>> of our colleagues, will be able to shed light on the phenomenon >>> through a series of analytical experiments. >>> >>> All the best, >>> >>> Al >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Albert S. Bregman, Emeritus Professor >>> Psychology Department, McGill University >>> 1205 Docteur Penfield Avenue >>> Montreal, QC, Canada H3A 1B1. >>> Tel: (514) 484-2592, (514) 398-6103 >>> Fax: (514) 484-2592 >>> www.psych.mcgill.ca/labs/auditory/Home.html >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> On 12/12/06, Diana Deutsch <ddeutsch@xxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>> Dear list, >>>> >>>> I've had a number of requests for the sound demonstration I >>>> presented at >>>> the recent ASA meeting in Honolulu, in which the spoken phrase >>>> 'sometimes >>>> behave so strangely' following several repetitions, appears >>>> convincingly >>>> to be sung rather than spoken - though there is no musical >>>> context and no >>>> physical transformation of the sound. This demonstration, >>>> together with >>>> spoken commentary, is on my CD 'Phantom Words and Other >>>> Curiosities' >>>> (available from Philomel Records - http://www.philomel.com). >>>> >>>> The sound demonstration is also posted on the website: >>>> >>>> http://philomel.com/phantom_words/description.html#sometimes >>>> >>>> and it's described in the booklet accompanying the CD, which is >>>> posted at: >>>> >>>> http://philomel.com/phantom_words/booklet/ >>>> >>>> Happy Holidays! >>>> >>>> Diana Deutsch >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> -- > > > -- > Valter Ciocca, PhD > Associate Professor > Division of Speech & Hearing Sciences > University of Hong Kong > Hong Kong SAR, China > > phone: 852 28590581 > fax: 852 25590060 >