Subject: Re: sometimes behave so strangely From: Andreas Bergsland <andreas.bergsland@xxxxxxxx> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 09:58:02 +0100 List-Archive:<http://lists.mcgill.ca/scripts/wa.exe?LIST=AUDITORY>Dear List, This demonstration makes me think of Pierre Schaeffer, the famous "inventor" of Musique Concréte in the late 40's, who used the method of so called /sillon fermé/, i.e. "closed grooves" on a gramophone record, to repeat the sound infinitely as a means to achieve a way of listening that disregarded any reference or associations in favour of the qualities of the sound in itself, a way of listening that he labeled /écoute réduite/. Repetition of shorter segments of sound, so called tape-loops has also been used extensively within the musique concrète tradition. Steve Reich created two pieces in the 1960, /It's Gonna Rain/, and /Come Out/, which both are based on solely on continuous repetitions of one single short speech segment (albeit with two superimposed versions which are very slowly put out of phase as the piece goes on). The result is the same as Diana Detsch demonstrated; the ear turns gradually to the "musical" qualities of the speech segment; its intonation, its timbre and its rythm. I agree with Diana that there is a kind of semantic satiation at play here, making both the semantic content and information of the speaker redundant. Best regards, Andreas Bergsland > Dear Al (and List), > > You raise some very interesting points. I don't think that the > explanation lies in semantic satiation, because the words (vowels and > consonants) are still heard very clearly, even though the phrase > appears to be sung. I do agree, though, that the answer lies, at > least in part, in the pitch modulations - though exactly what > happens isn't clear. At the ASA meeting I presented an illustration > showing the pitch tracing of my original rendition, and that of a > subject repeating what she heard after multiple repetitions. The > contours of all the syllables were flattened in the subject's > rendition, and it's my strong impression that people literally begin > to hear the contours as flattened. I'd be happy to send this > illustration to anyone who is interested. > > You also raise the point that the transformation of the phrase from > speech to song endures - so that when people listen again to the full > sentence, I appear to burst into song. This , to my mind, is a > particularly puzzling aspect of the effect. People have told me that > the effect is still present, unattenuated, even months later - and > this was certainly my experience. As you point out, perhaps the most > important question raised by this demonstration is why people don't > always hear speech as song. After all, the vowel components of words > are harmonic complexes - yet the pitch characteristics of speech are > usually suppressed in perception. > > The composer Mussorggsky wrote in a letter to Rimsky-Korsokoff: > > 'whatever speech I hear, no matter who is speaking ... my brain > immediately sets to working out a musical exposition for this speech' > . On listening to his music - particularly his song cycles - one > can deliberately flip one's perception to a different mode, and hear, > very convincingly, the intonation of Russian speech. I've often > wondered whether Mussorgsky may have heard all speech as we hear > 'sometimes behave so strangely' after repetition. > > All best, > > Diana > > > --------------------------------------------- > > > Professor Diana Deutsch > Department of Psychology > University of California, San Diego > 9500 Gilman Dr. #0109 > La Jolla, CA 92093-0109, USA > > 858-453-1558 (tel) > 858-453-4763 (fax) > > http://www-psy.ucsd.edu/~ddeutsch > http://www.philomel.com > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 12, 2006, at 10:08 PM, Al Bregman wrote: > >> Dear Diana (and List), >> >> Yes indeed! The repetitions do seem to comvert spoken speech to >> singing. >> >> I wonder whether your phenomenon isn't related to that of "semantic >> satiation", in which a word that is repeated over and over tends to >> lose its meaning and to be perceived as a sequence of sounds. The >> meaning is not lost in an all-or-nothing fashion, but tends to get >> weaker and weaker. (See >> .http://www.soc.hawaii.edu/leonj/499s99/yamauchi/semantic.htm) >> >> In the case of your demonstration there is a strongly modulated F0 >> (intonation contour) over the phrase. It may be that when we hear >> ordinary speech, which contains pitch modulation (an acoustic >> phenomenon that is present in both music and speech), the speech and >> musical schemas are both evoked and compete with one another. >> However, when the cues for speech are dominant (i.e., continuous and >> non-repeating modulation of F0, without pausing on particular >> pitches), the musical interpretation is suppressed. But when the >> phrase is repeated many times, a satiation and weakening of the speech >> interpretation occurs (as in semantic satiation), thereby allowing the >> musical interpretation to become more dominant. Of course it doesn't >> become completely dominant, or else we wouldn't hear speech at all. >> Rather there is an intermediate form of activation in which we hear >> both speech and music (i.e., singing). >> >> In your demonstration, immediately after hearing the phase as melodic, >> when we listen to the whole sentence again, we still maintain an >> association between the phrase and the melodic interpretation. I >> wonder how long this aftereffect lasts. >> >> Your demonstration raises the fascinating question of why we don't >> ALWAYS hear speech as singing. It may be that persons with absolute >> pitch come closer to this than the rest of us do, or at least can turn >> it on when they want to. A number of years ago, I asked Poppy Crum, a >> graduate student of mine who had absolute pitch, whether she could >> assign musical note values to my intonation pattern as I said a >> phrase. She replied that this was easy, and gave me a sequence of >> note names. >> >> Whatever the explanation of your phenomenon, it is truly interesting, >> and raises some challenging questions. I hope you yourself, or some >> of our colleagues, will be able to shed light on the phenomenon >> through a series of analytical experiments. >> >> All the best, >> >> Al >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Albert S. Bregman, Emeritus Professor >> Psychology Department, McGill University >> 1205 Docteur Penfield Avenue >> Montreal, QC, Canada H3A 1B1. >> Tel: (514) 484-2592, (514) 398-6103 >> Fax: (514) 484-2592 >> www.psych.mcgill.ca/labs/auditory/Home.html >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> On 12/12/06, Diana Deutsch <ddeutsch@xxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >>> Dear list, >>> >>> I've had a number of requests for the sound demonstration I >>> presented at >>> the recent ASA meeting in Honolulu, in which the spoken phrase >>> 'sometimes >>> behave so strangely' following several repetitions, appears >>> convincingly >>> to be sung rather than spoken - though there is no musical context >>> and no >>> physical transformation of the sound. This demonstration, together >>> with >>> spoken commentary, is on my CD 'Phantom Words and Other Curiosities' >>> (available from Philomel Records - http://www.philomel.com). >>> >>> The sound demonstration is also posted on the website: >>> >>> http://philomel.com/phantom_words/description.html#sometimes >>> >>> and it's described in the booklet accompanying the CD, which is >>> posted at: >>> >>> http://philomel.com/phantom_words/booklet/ >>> >>> Happy Holidays! >>> >>> Diana Deutsch >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> >> -- >> > -- Andreas Bergsland, stipendiat Institutt for Musikk HF-fakultetet NTNU 7491 Olavshallen E-post: andreas.bergsland@xxxxxxxx Tel : 73 59 73 55 Mob : 45 66 33 16 -- Andreas Bergsland, stipendiat Institutt for Musikk HF-fakultetet NTNU 7491 Olavshallen E-post: andreas.bergsland@xxxxxxxx Tel : 73 59 73 55 Mob : 45 66 33 16