Subject: Re: musical training and pitch resolution From: "Robert J. Zatorre" <robert.zatorre@xxxxxxxx> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2006 11:56:37 -0400Dear Linda I think what you're describing is none other than categorical perception, especially when you say: >The listener may not be consciously be perceiving how low a > flattening actually is or how sharp a sharpening actually is. This was described experimentally quite some time ago with both harmonic and melodic intervals: Burns, E. M., & Ward, W. D. (1978). Categorical perception: Phenomenon or epiphenomenon. Evidence from experiments in perception of melodic musical intervals. Journal of the Acoustical Society of America, 63, 456-468. Zatorre, R.J. and Halpern, A.R. (1979) Identification, discrimination and selective adaptation of simultaneous musical intervals. Perception and Psychophysics, 26, 384-395. Zatorre, R. J. (1983). Category-boundary effects and speeded sorting with a harmonic musical interval continuum. Journal of Experimental Psychology: Human Perception and Performance, 9, 739-752. Linda Seltzer wrote: > When I was younger I got very involved in the issues of pitch analysis, > and the more I learned about both ethnic music and signal processing, the > more I realized that it becomes a question of what one is trying to find > out and why. I doubt that divisions smaller than a semitone in any > particular culture or even among the performances of any one family or > performer in that culture are part of a repeatable system, and rather they > represent an expressivity that has to do with fine tuning of pitch and > timbre. The ustads of the music of India can sing different forms of a > note, and I have heard an ustad (Viliyat Khan) demonstrate singing > different forms of Sa, the base note that is never supposed to vary, in > one raga, because it suddenly struck him that it was what he wanted to > improvise musically at that point, and he had the musical vocabulary to do > it within the context of the raga. However, I doubt that these different > forms are invariant from one raga to another, and a performer could > purposely vary these very small nuances of pitch even within one > performance. The listener may not be consciously be perceiving how low a > flattening actually is or how sharp a sharpening actually is. However, > the listener will hear it as a change of mood or shading of expression in > the music, and we can definitely hear the difference between these singers > and singer who does not know these skills. Arabic maqam singers and > Eastern European folk violinists also use very fine gradations of pitch as > an expressive tool. I strongly doubt that any type of system can be made > out of any this. > > -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Robert J. Zatorre, Ph.D. Montreal Neurological Institute 3801 University St. Montreal, QC Canada H3A 2B4 phone: 1-514-398-8903 fax: 1-514-398-1338 e-mail: robert.zatorre@xxxxxxxx web site: www.zlab.mcgill.ca