Subject: Re: Computational ASA -- how many sources can humans perceive? From: Valeriy Shafiro <Valeriy_Shafiro(at)RUSH.EDU> Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 17:23:36 -0500It makes sense that being able to listen to a recording of a real-world sound mixture or an orchestra more than once can help to identify individual sound sources. However, when listening in real time how many sound sources or instruments can we keep in the "foreground" of our attention? I have not yet read the details of Huron's method, but his data are based on testing 5 musicians (although I am not sure how that was defined). Possibly some people are just so much better at it than others, whether by nature or nurture. ------------------------------------------------------------- Valeriy Shafiro Communication Disorders and Sciences Rush University Medical Center Chicago, IL office (312) 942 - 3298 lab (312) 942 - 3316 email: valeriy_shafiro(at)rush.edu ------------------------------------------------------------- Valeriy Shafiro Communication Disorders and Sciences Rush University Medical Center Chicago, IL office (312) 942 - 3298 lab (312) 942 - 3316 email: valeriy_shafiro(at)rush.edu -----beaucham <beaucham(at)manfred.music.uiuc.edu> wrote: ----- To: Valeriy_Shafiro(at)rsh.net From: beaucham <beaucham(at)manfred.music.uiuc.edu> Date: 04/30/2004 04:41PM cc: auditory(at)lists.mcgill.ca Subject: Re: Computational ASA -- how many sources can humans perceive? I have heard reports that persons exist who can write down entire orchestral scores after hearing a performance or a recording of a performance. Certainly there is the question of time and the numbers of times the listener/transcriber is able to listen repeatedly to the same segment. I know from my own experience and from talking to people who do music transcriptions from recordings, that more than 3 voices is routine for those who are practiced at it. Note that the ear/brain system has the ability to concentrate on a single line which is segregated by its timbral quality and push the other lines into the background. After repeatedly listening to the same passage, each line can be transcribed separately, and then the whole thing can be put together. Chords can be inferred by their sounds, although getting the exact voicing correct may not be easy. Jim Beauchamp Univ. of Illinois Urbana-Champaign Valeriy Shafiro wrote: .... >There is also a report by David Huron (Music Perception, Vol. 19, No. 1 >(2001) pp. 1-64., or on-line >http://www.music-cog.ohio-state.edu/Huron/Publications/huron.voice.leading.html >) that estimating the number of musical lines in >polyphonic music worsens considerably after 3. Some anecdotal evidence >for this limit also comes from movie sound effect designers. This is a >citation from Walter Murch, a renown sound effect artist: "There is a rule >of thumb I use which is never to give the audience more than two-and-a-half >things to think about aurally at any one moment. Now, those moments can >shift very quickly, but if you take a five-second section of sound and feed >the audience more than two-and-a-half conceptual lines at the same time, >they can't really separate them out. There's just no way to do it, and >everything becomes self-canceling." (cited from >http://www.filmsound.org/murch/waltermurch.htm)