Re: absolute pitch (Leon van Noorden )

Subject: Re: absolute pitch From: Leon van Noorden <leonvannoorden(at)CHELLO.BE> Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 09:45:32 +0200 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C42DCE.B6E65DC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Annemarie, I completely agree with you that verbal labeling of the aboslute pitch categories is only one stage in the perception process. These labels depend on what you have learned when you were young. I see it more as a way to access the outcome of the absolute pitch processor. It would be interesting to know what are the labels the animals attach here. What do they imagine when they hear a certain absolut pitch object? Do they "see" a big or small ape? or a "red" or "green" goldfinch? Leon -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: AUDITORY Research in Auditory Perception [mailto:AUDITORY(at)LISTS.MCGILL.CA]namens Annemarie Seither-Preisler Verzonden: 29 apr 04 9:09 Aan: AUDITORY(at)LISTS.MCGILL.CA Onderwerp: absolute pitch If absolute pitch were a phenomenon exclusively due to learned verbal categories, how would one explain the finding that several investigated animal species have absolute pitch? (a) songbirds Hulse, S. H. & Cynx, J. Relative pitch perception is constrained by absolute pitch in songbirds (Mimus, Molothrus, and Sturnus). J Comp Psychol 99, 176-196 (1985). (b) monkeys and rats D'Amato, M. R. A search for tonal pattern perception in cebus monkeys: Why monkeys can’t hum a tune. Music Perception 4, 453-480 (1988). (c) echolocating bats Schmidt, S., Preisler, A. & Sedlmeier, H. in Advances in Hear Res (eds. Manley, G. A., Klump, G., Köppl, C., Fastl, H. & Oeckinghaus, H.) 374-382 (World Scientific Publishers, Singapore, 1994). Preisler, A. & Schmidt, S. in 23rd Göttingen Neurobiology Conference (eds. Elsner, N. & Menzel, R.) 309 (Georg Thieme Verlag, Stuttgart, 1995). The findings by Saffran appear to be very revealing in this respect, showing that young infants at the age of 8 months, unlike adults, primarily rely on absolute pitch cues. Saffran, J. R. & Griepentrog, G. J. Absolute pitch in infant auditory learning: evidence for developmental reorganization. Dev Psychol 37, 74-85 (2001). Saffran, J. R. Musical Learning and Language Development. Ann NY Acad Sci 999, 397-401 (2003). In summary, these results suggest that absolute pitch is a primary perceptual mode that is heavily superseded by relative pitch (probably in the course of language acquisition). Early musical training or learning a tonal language like Thai or Japanese may help to prevent this edging out-process, with the consequence that certain subjects retain the ability to perceive absolute pitch throughout life. Verbal categorizations of notes may be helpful in this respect, but it would be misleading to take them for the main underlying cause. Annemarie Seither-Preisler Dr. Annemarie Seither-Preisler Universitätsklinikum Münster Abteilung für Experimentelle Audiologie Klinik und Poliklinik für Hals-, Nasen- und Ohrenheilkunde Kardinal von Galen Ring 10 D-48149 Münster Tel.: 0049 / 251 / 83 / 56817 Fax: 0049 / 251 / 83 / 56882 Email: preisler(at)uni-muenster.de ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C42DCE.B6E65DC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; = charset=3Diso-8859-1"> <META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2800.1400" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE>(at)font-face { font-family: Helvetica; } (at)font-face { font-family: Times; } (at)page Section1 {size: 595.3pt 841.9pt; margin: 70.85pt 70.85pt 2.0cm = 70.85pt; } P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } H1 { FONT-SIZE: 16pt; MARGIN: 12pt 0cm 3pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial } A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } A:visited { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } P.berschrift3neu { FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 12pt 0cm 0pt; FONT-STYLE: = italic; FONT-FAMILY: Times } LI.berschrift3neu { FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 12pt 0cm 0pt; FONT-STYLE: = italic; FONT-FAMILY: Times } DIV.berschrift3neu { FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 12pt 0cm 0pt; FONT-STYLE: = italic; FONT-FAMILY: Times } P.berschrift1neu { FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 16pt; MARGIN: 12pt 0cm 3pt; LINE-HEIGHT: = 200%; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica } LI.berschrift1neu { FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 16pt; MARGIN: 12pt 0cm 3pt; LINE-HEIGHT: = 200%; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica } DIV.berschrift1neu { FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 16pt; MARGIN: 12pt 0cm 3pt; LINE-HEIGHT: = 200%; FONT-FAMILY: Helvetica } SPAN.EmailFormatvorlage19 { COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: Arial } DIV.Section1 { page: Section1 } </STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY lang=3DDE vLink=3Dpurple link=3Dblue> <DIV>Annemarie,</DIV> <DIV>I=20 completely agree with you that verbal labeling of the aboslute pitch = categories=20 is only one stage in the perception process. These labels depend on what = you=20 have learned when you were young. I see it more as a way to access the = outcome=20 of the absolute pitch processor. It would be interesting to know what = are the=20 labels the animals attach here. What do they imagine when they hear a = certain=20 absolut pitch object?</DIV> <DIV>Do=20 they "see" a big or small ape? or a "red" or "green"=20 goldfinch?</DIV> <DIV>Leon</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20 style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px = solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader>-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: AUDITORY = Research in=20 Auditory Perception [mailto:AUDITORY(at)LISTS.MCGILL.CA]namens = Annemarie=20 Seither-Preisler Verzonden: 29 apr 04 9:09 Aan:=20 AUDITORY(at)LISTS.MCGILL.CA Onderwerp: absolute=20 pitch </DIV> <DIV class=3DSection1> If absolute pitch were a = phenomenon exclusively due to learned verbal categories, how would one = explain=20 the finding that several investigated animal species have absolute = pitch?=20   <FONT=20 face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>(a)=20 songbirds <FONT=20 face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Hulse, S. H. = & Cynx,=20 J. Relative pitch perception is constrained by absolute pitch in = songbirds=20 (Mimus, Molothrus, and Sturnus). J Comp=20 Psychol 99, = 176-196=20 (1985). <FONT=20 face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>(b) monkeys and=20 rats <FONT=20 face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>D'Amato, M. R. A = search=20 for tonal pattern perception in cebus monkeys: Why monkeys can=92t hum = a tune.=20 Music Perception = <SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">4, 453-480 = (1988). <FONT=20 face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>(c) echolocating = bats <FONT=20 face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Schmidt, S., = Preisler, A.=20 & Sedlmeier, H. in Advances = in Hear=20 Res (eds. Manley, G. A., Klump, G., K=F6ppl, C., Fastl, H. = &=20 Oeckinghaus, H.) 374-382 (World Scientific Publishers, Singapore,=20 1994). <FONT=20 face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2><SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Preisler, A. = &=20 Schmidt, S. in 23rd G=F6ttingen = Neurobiology=20 Conference (eds. Elsner, N. & Menzel, R.) 309 (Georg = Thieme=20 Verlag, Stuttgart, 1995). <SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">  The findings by Saffran = appear to=20 be very revealing in this respect, showing that young infants at the = age of 8=20 months, unlike adults, primarily rely on absolute pitch=20 cues.   <FONT=20 face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Saffran, J. R. = &=20 Griepentrog, G. J. Absolute pitch in infant auditory learning: = evidence for=20 developmental reorganization. Dev=20 Psychol 37, = 74-85=20 (2001). <FONT=20 face=3D"Courier New" size=3D2>Saffran, J. R. = Musical=20 Learning and Language Development. Ann NY=20 Acad Sci 999, 397-401=20 (2003).   In summary, these = results suggest=20 that absolute pitch is a primary perceptual mode that is heavily = superseded by=20 relative pitch (probably in the course of language acquisition). =  Early=20 musical training or learning a tonal language like Thai or Japanese = may help=20 to prevent this edging out-process, with the consequence that certain = subjects=20 retain the ability to perceive absolute pitch throughout life. Verbal=20 categorizations of notes may be helpful in this respect, but it would = be=20 misleading to take them for the main underlying cause. =   Annemarie=20 Seither-Preisler     <SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Dr. Annemarie=20 Seither-Preisler <SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">  <SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier = New'">Universit=E4tsklinikum=20 M=FCnster <SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Abteilung f=FCr=20 Experimentelle Audiologie <SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Klinik und = Poliklinik f=FCr=20 Hals-, Nasen- und Ohrenheilkunde <SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">Kardinal von = Galen Ring=20 10 <SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'">D-48149=20 M=FCnster <SPAN=20 style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt">  Tel.: 0049 / 251 = / 83 /=20 56817 Fax: 0049 / 251 = / 83 /=20 56882 Email:=20 <ST1:PERSONNAME>preisler(at)uni-muenster.de</ST1:PERSONNAME>  </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C42DCE.B6E65DC0--

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