Subject: Re: Inexpensive hearing aids From: Thomas G Brennan <g_brennantg(at)TITAN.SFASU.EDU> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 20:50:45 -0600Subjective preference is a whole new can of worms if you will. We have (by the very fact of the need for a hearing aid) an auditory system not functioning correctly and we fit it according to the preference of the system? Tom Tom Brennan KD5VIJ, CCC-A/SLP, R/D - AU web page http://titan.sfasu.edu/~g_brennantg/sonicpage.html On Sat, 27 Mar 2004, Barbara Reynolds wrote: > Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:47:15 -0600 > From: Barbara Reynolds <br_auditory(at)HOTMAIL.COM> > To: AUDITORY(at)LISTS.MCGILL.CA > Subject: Re: Inexpensive hearing aids > > > I probably wouldn't tune them to piano harmonics. I would try to adjust > the response of the hearing aids to you're subjective preference, which > is ultimately my point. Using your musical history as a guide instead of > ignoring would give me a better idea where to start not necessarily where > we would finish. What the ultimate fitting would be after a year would > still be to your subjective preference regardless of whether you played > harp or tuba or nothing at all. > > >From: susan allen <susie(at)SHOKO.CALARTS.EDU> > >Reply-To: susan allen <susie(at)SHOKO.CALARTS.EDU> > >To: AUDITORY(at)LISTS.MCGILL.CA > >Subject: Inexpensive hearing aids > >Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:50:03 -0800 > > > >As a professional harpist, I would be very confused if my hearing > >aid > >was tuned to piano harmonics. > >Susan Allen > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I see your point but it does clinically concern me to "not be hung > >up on the > >specifics" when dealing with clients as we're dealing with specific > >problems. > >I've seen you state a lot of opinions and you are obviously working > >for the good > >of your clients. Others on the list have asked you for specific > >data and you > >have yet to provide that and now when I have asked you specifically > >about what > >you have stated on the list using specific numbers to justify what > >you do you > >say the specifics do not matter. Certainly when we treat clients > >there is a > >clinical apsect to things just as there is a scientific aspect. > >When I tune a > >piano for someine who is an advanced musician I may not tune a > >purely equally > >tempered scale because of what they prefer or the instruments they > >will play or > >the music they use. However, when I do deviate from the accepted > >norm I always > >have a reason for doing so and can demonstrate that reason to any > >other > >professional who asks. That duplication of knowledge is the reason > >I have > >questioned you and attempted to learn something of your methods only > >to have you > >tell me that I should not deal in specifics. I apologize if you > >have been > >offended by my questions but I thought they were quite basic rather > >than > >specific. > > > >Tom > > > > > >Tom Brennan KD5VIJ, CCC-A/SLP, R/D - AU > >web page http://titan.sfasu.edu/~g_brennantg/sonicpage.html > > > >On Sat, 27 Mar 2004, Barbara Reynolds wrote: > > > >> Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 13:06:30 -0600 > >> From: Barbara Reynolds <br_auditory(at)hotmail.com> > >> To: g_brennantg(at)TITAN.SFASU.EDU, AUDITORY(at)LISTS.MCGILL.CA > >> Subject: Re: Inexpensive hearing aids - Consideration of Piano > >>harmonics > >> > >> > >> I don't have the equipment to be that exact. I fit on a general > >> principle that keeps in mind that I am working with a musician > >>with an > >> expanded representation for sound that is different than > >>non-musician's. > >> They may not like the sound of an aid precisely because I haven't > >>matched > >> a certain band of frequencies as well as I could if I tried to > >>shift the > >> response of the aid off the more traditional "pure tone" > >> recommendations. Pure tones don't occur in nature, so why should > >>we be > >> married to the idea that people hear the best when we match the > >> prescription formulas or the audiogram to a psychological, > >>subjective > >> system. > >> > >> I've noticed that some people are spend too much time on the > >>specifics > >> rather than the general priniciple. I'm not concerned with exact > >> measurements, but I am concern with the difference in programming > >>that > >> may be necessary because of vastly different auditory systems > >>based on > >> environmental or genetic influences. > >> > >> Please don't get hung up on the specifics, see the point for what > >>it was. > >> > >> >From: g_brennantg(at)TITAN.SFASU.EDU > >> >To: Barbara Reynolds <br_auditory(at)HOTMAIL.COM> > >> >CC: AUDITORY(at)LISTS.MCGILL.CA > >> >Subject: Re: Inexpensive hearing aids - Consideration of Piano > >>harmonics > >> >Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 19:39:09 -0600 (CST) > >> > > >> >Barb, I'm inpressed if you have instrumentation to fit to exact > >>tones > >> such as > >> >"2048" which is, by the way, a C of 512 which is not a temered C > >>so > >> would > >> >usually be inappropriate to fit as a tempered C is at > >> 523.25. Interestingly, > >> >this makes your C at 2048 come out at 2093 which is only three > >>cycles > >> less than > >> >being out by the same amount your 2048 would be from the 2000 of > >>the > >> audiometer. > >> > > >> >As an aside, if we multiply the A which is the more commonly > >>used not > >> for > >> >tempering scales, that has your A at 1600. In Europe rather > >>than using > >> 440 > >> >currently many people now use 442 which brings the 1600 to 1608. > >> Of > >> course, all > >> >of this becomes of questionable value either in a porrly > >>tempered scale, > >> with a > >> >piano either flat or sharp in pitch (this applies to other > >>instruments > >> as well) > >> >or with instruments which are not tempered or which are not > >>equal > >> temered. > >> >Since the band spreads on audiometers are standardized to neural > >> response etc. > >> >al be it sometimes after the fact, I am still left with the > >>question of > >> how much > >> >good this actually does for a client. I also wonder about these > >>single > >> cycle > >> >frequency adjustments to aids. > >> > > >> >Thanks. > >> > > >> >Tom > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >Tom Brennan KD5VIJ, CCC-A/SLP, R/D - AU > >> >web page http://titan.sfasu.edu/~g_brennantg/sonicpage.html > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >>_____________________________________________________________________________ > __ > >> Get tax tips, tools and access to IRS forms ñ all in one place at > >>MSN > >> Money! > >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________ > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar – get it now! >