Re: The Bach choral dilemma (Diana Deutsch )

Subject: Re: The Bach choral dilemma
From:    Diana Deutsch  <ddeutsch(at)UCSD.EDU>
Date:    Fri, 24 Jan 2003 11:37:50 -0800

In some of these guitar pieces, the composer deliberately slows down at the end, so that you realize you had been experiencing a continuity effect all along. Another remarkable example of an entire piece that demonstrates of streaming plus continuity is Barrios's 'Una Limosna por el Amor de Dios' . (This can also be heard in a John Williams recording - it's an extraordinarily beautiful piece anyway). -Diana >I saw a video tape of John Williams playing this. "Its kind of a trick" he >said. He plays it slow and you hear it as separate then he speeds it up and >right before your "ears" you hear the fourth note come out of nowhere. It >was pretty amazing. > >Aaron > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Diana Deutsch" <ddeutsch(at)UCSD.EDU> >To: <AUDITORY(at)LISTS.MCGILL.CA> >Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 2:03 PM >Subject: Re: The Bach choral dilemma > > >> I'm glad you raised this, and agree that the literature contains some >> unconvincing examples of 'streaming' . On the other hand, one can >> find excellent examples in classical and romantic guitar music, such >> as by Tarrega and Barrios, where one can also find continuity >> effects. Listen, for example, to Tarrega's 'Recuerdos de la Alhambra'. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Diana Deutsch >> >> >> >Dear Auditory Listers, >> > >> >Listening carefully to BWV 363 (Jesus Christus, unser Heiland), or BWV >> >364 (Jesus Christus, unser Heiland, der den Tod), I hardly hear it >> >streaming, if streaming at all. Same for my Sensation & Perception >> >class. >> > >> >A collegue of mine, who owns a huge collection of Baroque music, told me >> >that BWV 363 is not a so good instance of polyphonic music. So why >> >Bruce Goldstein presents it as such in his Sensation & Perception >> >textbook? (4th ed., 1996, p. 397; 5th ed., 1999, p. 360) >> > >> >The author provides a musical notation in Figure 12.11 (p. 360): four >> >measures of (what is probably, according to title) BWV 363. The notes >> >clearly stream (VISUALLY, I mean). I am not a musician, but the musical >> >notation seems to me quite simple for a so complex musical piece. Can >> >someone confirm that the notation is the original? >> > >> >Goldstein notes: "When this passage is played rapidly, the low notes >> >sound as if they are a melody played by one instrument, and the high >> >notes sound like a different melody played by another instrument. This >> >effect [...] is an example of auditory stream segregation [...]." (p. >> >360). First, BWV 363 is refered to as an instrumental piece, while the >> >only instrument is the human voice (choral). The fact that the human >> >voice is also a musical instrument should probably be emphasized to >> >musically naive students. Secondly -- and more critically --, why >> >whould we have to play it rapidly, while the composer's intent was to >> >provide a polyphonic experience at the written tempo? >> > >> >An e-mail sent to the author at bruceg+(at)pitt-edu on Nov. 30, 2001, has >> >not been answered yet. >> > >> >A legal (30 sec.) excerpt of BWV 363 may probably be made available on >> >the Auditory List Home Page, if someone can provide it. Are more >> >salient examples of Baroque polyphony known? >> > >> >I have a great respect for Goldstein's S&P textbook, and I hope Auditory >> >Listers will provide clues into (what my S&P class and I are now >> >refering to as) the Bach choral dilemma. >> > >> >Luc Rousseau, Ph.D. >> >Assistant Professor >> >Department of Psychology >> >Laurentian University >> >Sudbury, Ontario, Canada >> >> >> -- >> >> >> Diana Deutsch >> Professor of Psychology >> Department of Psychology >> University of California, San Diego >> La Jolla, CA 92093, USA >> >> 858-453-1558 (tel) >> 858-453-4763 (fax) >> ddeutsch(at) >> >>

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