Subject: Re: finger nails on blackboard From: Neil Todd <todd(at)FS4.PSY.MAN.AC.UK> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 13:48:46 +0100Dear Bob and List Having recently done some work on the pleasantness/unpleasantness of sounds (JASA 110(1), 380-390, 2001) I was somewhat curious to read that it was the low frequencies that produced the effect, since most of the literature I am aware of (e.g. see review in Vitz (1973) P&P, 11, 84-88) suggests the opposite. However, having got hold of a copy of the Halpern et al. paper I note that sound in question has a fairly strong harmonic structure with a fundamental at about 1.4 kHz. The fundamental is very weak and most of the energy is in harmonics 2,3,4 and 5, starting at 2.8 kHz. By most standards this sound would be considered to be quite high. So the term "low" should be considered in relative terms. Nevertheless, application of a high-pass filter to this sound suggested that it was frequencies less than 2-3 kHz which were predominant in the effect, and by implication the fundamental and possibly the 2nd harmonic, i.e. sounds between about 1 - 2 kHz. In the previous literature and my own work, sounds less than 1 kHz were considered to be least annoying or most pleasant. So why do sounds with frequencies between 1-2 kHz cause the effect? My guess is that the effect is produced by activation of various myogenic reflex responses including the stapedius response, the post-auricular response and responses of other muscles innervated by the facial nerve (and possibly the trigeminal nerve). It so happens that the tuning curves of stapedius motorneurons have their best frequencies between 1-2 kHz with a threshold of about 75 dB in the cat (see Kobler et al. (1992), J. Neurophysiol. 68, 807-817). (These should be distinguished from myogenic vestibular responses mediated by the accessory nerve, which responds to frequencies less than 1 kHz.) In order for this to work then the scraping sound would have to be above about 75 dB, but it's not clear from Halpern et al. what intensity they presented the sounds to the subjects. However, the proposed mechanism would account for why the effect appears to be reflexive. It can't be very pleasant having all those muscles twitching away! Cheers Neil > From: "Bob Carlyon" <bob.carlyon(at)MRC-CBU.CAM.AC.UK> > To: <AUDITORY(at)LISTS.MCGILL.CA> > Sent: 18 July 2001 10:06 > Subject: Re: finger nails on blackboard > > > dunno exactly, but surprisingly it's the LOW frequencies thatare important > for the effect. > see D.L. HAlpern et al (1986) "Psychophysics of a chilling sound", Percept > Psychophys, 39, 77-80 > > bob > > At 01:02 17/07/2001 +0800, you wrote: >>Dear list, >> >>A question that has reoccurred over the last year in my philosophising > about >>sound is: >>Why do we feel so uncomfortable when hearing the sound of finger nails >>scraping on a blackboard? >> >>I'm working on my PhD in ecological sound design and this question seems to >>turn up every now and then... >> >> >>----------------------------- >>Mikael Fernström, M.Sc. >>Interaction Design Centre, >>Department of Computer Science and Information Systems >>University of Limerick, IRELAND >>Phone: +353-61-202606 Mobile: +353-86-8188079 >>Web: www.idc.ul.ie www.softday.ie > > Dr. Bob Carlyon > MRC Cognition and Brain Sciences Unit > 15 Chaucer Rd. > Cambridge CB2 2EF > England > Phone: (44) 1223 355294 ext 831 > Fax: (44) 1223 359062 > email: bob.carlyon(at)mrc-cbu.cam.ac.uk > !!!!!NOTE NEW PHONE EXTENSION NUMBER!!!!