Subject: Re: AUDITORY Digest - 3 Jun 1999 to 4 Jun 1999 (#1999-80) From: "Chuck Watson Ph.D" <watson(at)INDIANA.EDU> Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 14:57:14 -0500In response to Kevin Austin. Early in this discussion of frequency discrimination I mentioned that our subjects are all tested by asking the= m whether they hear frequency sequence AAB or sequence ABA, where A and B a= re two different frequencies. Thus we learn something about their frequency discrimination ability as A approaches B, but nothing about their use of = the words "high" or "low." As far as I know there might be some of them who = use those words in the opposite direction to most of us, but since our concer= n is with sensory processing abilities, not semantics, that is not a major concern. Other investigators are interested in how listeners use certain words, like "loudness," "pitch," and so forth...and to learn those things different methods are required. If, as you say, you can't abide numbers, this may not be a subject you probably want to pursue. Chuck Watson > -----Original Message----- > From: AUDITORY Research in Auditory Perception > [mailto:AUDITORY(at)LISTS.MCGILL.CA]On Behalf Of Automatic digest processo= r > Sent: Friday, June 04, 1999 11:00 PM > To: Recipients of AUDITORY digests > Subject: AUDITORY Digest - 3 Jun 1999 to 4 Jun 1999 (#1999-80) > > > There are 5 messages totalling 199 lines in this issue. > > Topics of the day: > > 1. Discrimination and direction > 2. Up-down pitch perception (2) > 3. MEG headphones (2) > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 08:27:42 -0400 > From: KEVIN AUSTIN <KAUSTIN(at)VAX2.CONCORDIA.CA> > Subject: Discrimination and direction > > Sorry, I'm (easily) confused by numbers. > > It seems that 80-90% of a general population can discriminate a .5%-1% > difference in frequency at 1 kHz. How many of them are able to indicate > 'which direction' the frequency was moved? It may be in the posting, bu= t > I didn't see it .... deaf as a bat. > > Best > > Kevin > kaustin(at)vax2.concordia.ca > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 19:29:24 +0200 > From: Alexandra Hettergott <a.hettergott(at)WANADOO.FR> > Subject: Re: Up-down pitch perception > > Kevin Austin wrote: > >Thank you for the summary of responses. Most interesting. > > I join the thanks, to me this was also of particular interest. > > >I have found that up to about 10% of students in my courses, at some t= ime > >(and sometimes regularly), demonstrate up/down discrimination > >difficulties. The circumstances can either be intervals played in > >isolation, or within melodic passages. Since my findings are shown in = the > >form of 'writing' rather than 'asking' which is higher (and given that > >the students are spending 10 or more hours per week studying music), I > >have come to accept that up-down pitch perception is a serious problem= , > >sometimes, for some students (and is a complex matter). > > How "pure" are the signals you are testing ? Sine tones, too ? or > mixtures ? gotten > from acoustic instruments, like the piano (real or synthetic) ? > or even all or > nothing of this ? > > > >It is also my experience that many people 'from the general population= ' > >hear sound the way color is perceived as an un-categorized > continuum ... so > >which "is" higher, red or green? (except in traffic lights). > > Well, as to me my modest experiences I would agree: untrained > listeners get more the > "whole" of a, lets say, impressionist painting, while the trained > listeners look also > for the stroke of the brush; so people with (long-term) ear > training would listen for > (musical) interval relations rather, I would guess, even in tasks > dealing with very > complex sounds. (So this might be a little, too, in the direction of > synthetic/analytic listening behavior.) > > > Sincerely, > Alexandra Hettergott. > > _______________________ > Alexandra Hettergott > 1, avenue des Gobelins > /bo=EEte 23 > F-75005 Paris/France > T=E9l/fax: +33-(0)1-43 31 41 27 > M=E9l: a.hettergott(at)wanadoo.fr > http://perso.wanadoo.fr/a.hettergott/ > > ... la noche, > peque=F1os ruidos > ... sombra y espacio, tierra > y tiempo, > algo que corre y cae > y pasa ... > (Pablo Neruda) > (and thanks for the "little beyond the scope of this thread" ; > btw I didn't really > convince you re the "oxymoron" recently, n'est-ce pas ? ;-). > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 13:22:57 -0600 > From: Sheila Williams <williams(at)PSYVAX.PSY.UTEXAS.EDU> > Subject: Re: Up-down pitch perception > > Hi, > > sorry for the somewhat belated response to Robert's original query. > > I'm not sure how relevant this is to the information you need but an > additional aspect relates to streaming. > > Certainly in situations in which the two (pure) tones concerned are: > a) part of a repetitive pattern > b) short duration and close > c) more than a few semitones apart > > then I have a tendency to hear the two streams formed (one high tone > stream, one low tone stream, each with the same tone, slow rate of > repetition) with the tones occurring at the same time, so that it is no > longer possible to say which came first. > > I cannot recollect whether this happens immediately the 2 streams > appear or > only after they have become well established, so cannot say whether thi= s > would be likely to affect judgement of the order of two short tones > presented in isolation (does anyone else experience this phenomenon?). > > Sheila > > Dr Sheila M Williams phone: 512-471-0693 > Psychology, University of Texas at Austin > 328 Benedict Hall, Austin, Texas, USA, 78712 fax: 512-471-6175 > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 21:03:38 +0200 > From: Christian Kaernbach <chris(at)PSYCHOLOGIE.UNI-LEIPZIG.DE> > Subject: MEG headphones > > Does anyone use (or know someone who uses) non feromagnetic (piezo) > headphones for magnetoecephalography (MEG) experiments? Usual sound > application is via elastic tubes from speakers outside of the > magneto-shielding booth, with really bad sound transmission values. > Piezo headphones might provide good sound transmission without > disturbing the magnetic field. Information on providers of such > equipment (and approx. prices) would be highly welcome. Is it difficult > to install? Does it need shielding tubes for the wires? > > Thanks, > Christian > > -- > Dr. Christian Kaernbach > Institut fuer Allgemeine Psychologie > Universitaet Leipzig > Seeburgstr. 14-20 Tel.: +49 341 97-35968, Fax: -35969 > 04 103 Leipzig mailto:chris(at)psychologie.uni-leipzig.de > Germany http://www.uni-leipzig.de/~psycho/kaernbach/ > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 4 Jun 1999 19:50:19 +0000 > From: Jont Allen <jba(at)RESEARCH.ATT.COM> > Subject: Re: MEG headphones > > Christian Kaernbach wrote: > > > > Does anyone use (or know someone who uses) non feromagnetic (piezo) > > headphones for magnetoecephalography (MEG) experiments? Usual sound > > application is via elastic tubes from speakers outside of the > > magneto-shielding booth, with really bad sound transmission values. > > Piezo headphones might provide good sound transmission without > > disturbing the magnetic field. Information on providers of such > > equipment (and approx. prices) would be highly welcome. Is it difficu= lt > > to install? Does it need shielding tubes for the wires? > > > > Thanks, > > Christian > > > > -- > > Dr. Christian Kaernbach > > Institut fuer Allgemeine Psychologie > > Universitaet Leipzig > > Seeburgstr. 14-20 Tel.: +49 341 97-35968, Fax: -35969 > > 04 103 Leipzig mailto:chris(at)psychologie.uni-leipzig.de > > Germany http://www.uni-leipzig.de/~psycho/kaernbach/ > > Dear Auditory List, > > Etymotic Research, Elk Grove Village, Illinois > sells earphones that may be used under ultrahigh magnetic fields. > They are basically insert earphones ('tube phones') with 20 foot > plastic tubes to deliver the sound. This is a comercial product. > http://www.etymotic.com/html/index.html Look under 'insert earphones' at the 'ER-30' Jont -- Jont B. Allen AT&T Labs-Research, Shannon Laboratory 180 Park Ave., Room E161, Florham Park NJ, 07932-0971 973/360-8545voice, x7111fax, http://www.research.att.com/info/jba ----------------------------------------------------------------------- * My favorite URL: www-history.mcs.st-and.ac.uk/history * Imagination is more important than knowledge. --Albert Einstein ------------------------------ End of AUDITORY Digest - 3 Jun 1999 to 4 Jun 1999 (#1999-80) ************************************************************