Re: [AUDITORY] MIDI Drum Pads: Delay and temporal resolution

[SKoT McDonald <skot@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

In 2006 at FXpansion, we made measurements of different drum module's 
latencies as part of an investigation into why certain users were 
experiencing bad latency with their e-drum kits when using our BFD range 
of drum software.

We found that Roland TD-20s were quite slow - it seems their 
propitiatory COSM modelling of impacts added 1-2 ms, even for MIDI-only 
event output; positional information was sent before the note onset in 
the form of MIDI CC messages - each 3-byte MIDI message adds 1ms - and 
some pads were sending 2-3 MIDI CC messages (hihats in particular!). The 
TD20 of the time had no USB MIDI option.

A Yamaha DTX kit by contrast had less pre-processing of impacts, a USB 
connection for MIDI, and less MIDI CC positional information, which I 
think you could switch off too - this made the Yamaha "brains" about 3-4 
ms faster to get a MIDI Note to the sequencer or instrument on your 
computer.

Our audio devices tended to be high end, such as RME Firefaces with 64 
sample buffers (~1.5ms @ 44.1kHz).

Considering that ~6ms is the border of average human timing discernment, 
we found "rhythmically highly trained" subjects, like drummers, were 
capable of being put off by the TD-20's lag, despite being the highest 
priced kit in the market. We hassled Roland for many years to at least 
add a MIDI USB connection...

Cheers,

SKoT McDonald



On 18/06/2013 7:09 PM, Andre Holzapfel wrote:
> Dear Benjamin,
>
> we will have a paper in this years SMC conference related to the 
> acquisition of tapping data using software implemented at INESC TEC in 
> Porto.
>
> We did an experiment to determine the overall latency when using a 
> MIDI interface (Roland Handsonic HPD-10) connected through a 
> Digidesign USB sound card to a 2012 iMac. The obtained latency was 
> 17ms. I do not know how much you can gain by using more high end 
> interfaces, but I would agree with the previous response, that it is 
> very unlikely to get even close to sub-millisecond accuracy using MIDI.
>
> Please let me know about your further investigations, contact me if 
> you like to obtain the paper in advance.
>
> Best,
>
> Andre Holzapfel
>
>
> Quoting Benjamin Schultz <benjamin.schultz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
>
> > Dear Auditory List,
> >
> > I am currently looking at purchasing a MIDI Drum Pad for experimental 
> > research involving finger tapping. There appears to be very little 
> > information regarding how much of a time delay there is between the 
> > pads being tapped and the sound being produced (via external MIDI 
> > devices or the drum pad's internal sequencer).
> >
> > I'm looking to have the smallest time delay possible (sub-millisecond 
> > would be ideal). Does anyone have any advice about the best device to 
> > use and what kinds of time delays I should expect from the device? 
> > Their unit of pulses per quarter note does not appear to be very 
> > informative.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Dr. Benjamin G. Schultz
> > Post-doctoral Fellow
> >
> > Sequence Production Lab
> > McGill University
> > Stewart Biology Building
> > 1205 Dr. Penfield Ave., Montreal H3A 1B1
> > Montreal, Quebec H3A 1B1
> > Canada
> > Tel.: 514-398-5270
> > Fax: 514-398-4896
> >
> > Email: benjamin.schultz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > http://www.mcgill.ca/spl/members/currentmembers#SCHULTZ<http://www.mcgill.ca/spl/members/currentmembers%23SCHULTZ> 
>
>
>
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